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Springheel

Half the map disappearing...wtf?

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In my list of five WTF problems today, here's number 3:

 

There's an area in my map where the screen flickers walking through it. If I edge forward and stop right in the spot where it flickers, half the map disappears and I can see the skybox.

 

There is absolutely nothing there that should cause any concern...just a monsterclip brush.

 

Anyone ever heard of this before?

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post-9-130176401109_thumb.jpg

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I've got the same in a map I'm working on. I'm hoping that rebuilding in a slightly different way, visportalling differently, that sort of thing might fix it.

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In my list of five WTF problems today, here's number 3:

 

There's an area in my map where the screen flickers walking through it. If I edge forward and stop right in the spot where it flickers, half the map disappears and I can see the skybox.

 

There is absolutely nothing there that should cause any concern...just a monsterclip brush.

 

Anyone ever heard of this before?

 

Didn't Biker have some weird disappearance too? Back with RTTC v2?

 

So you are saying there is no visportal there?

 

You seem to be leaning over that ground brush, which has a sharp edge. Is that worldspawn or func_static? Could that brush, with stretched vertice cause problems? I had in transaction WIP a vertex dragged worldspawn brush, which was non solid. The player could just march inside it with similar results like player noclipped. I tried altering it but with no help. I deleted the brush totally, and built it again. Then it was okay.

 

Maybe vertex dragged worldspawn brushes cause issues sometimes. Try to replace that vertex dragger brush with a rectangular one, delete all mapfiles except the .map and dmap.

 

I'm just guessing, though and I don't really know what is going on.. :(


Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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Ah, you're right, there's a visportal right along the line where it disappears. I'll try moving it, thanks.

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Weird, I moved the visportal over a bit, and now it looks like the "after" shot no matter where I stand. The portal has become a two-way window into the skybox. Bizarre.

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And you're accounting for that brown stretch of dirt between the two stone walks being a patch, and not worldspawn? Hide that patch, and it exposes a deep well stretching the entire length of the street. In the version of the map I was checking, the large visportal that's behind you from where you took those shots is unsealed.

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Flakebridge has something like that, on some systems. Alas, I do not know what causes it.

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It's usually caused by func_statics that either touch the VP surface (I recall someone having this with a chair back touching). Otherwise it can be caused by brush func statics that cross more than one portal(touch two). This usually happens at 90 degree bends, sometimes you can fix it up by using a 45 degree portal, instead of the two VP's at right angles.

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It's usually caused by func_statics that either touch the VP surface (I recall someone having this with a chair back touching). Otherwise it can be caused by brush func statics that cross more than one portal(touch two). This usually happens at 90 degree bends, sometimes you can fix it up by using a 45 degree portal, instead of the two VP's at right angles.

 

I never had issues with f_s's crossing visportals. In fact I've used that quite a bit in my city map so visportals have a nice square fit.


Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

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somehow funny... half of biker's map "vanishes", while i have the problem that on some places func_statics are rendered altough they are in a completly closed area wacko.gif

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I alluded to this in my other post. This is familiar to me as the 'black walls of death' or 'disappearing walls of death' (my term). In my experience this happened when I had a sliver in the brushwork right along the border of the walls-of-death, then the rendering would hiccup on it and brushes behind it would either disappear or render as skybox when you approached it in a certain way. A sliver could be anything from a tiny gap or overlap or a little triangle jutting out or in, etc. (It can also happen when you have a visportal, but leave a gap between the portal and the other leaf, the gap will turn skybox-looking, but that doesn't look like this.)

 

Edit: I can't see the walls, but my suspicion is immediately drawn to the border between the stone & dirt on the ground. Try simplifying that boundary so it's less slivery and see if that fixes it, or anything else that looks suspicious.


What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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somehow funny... half of biker's map "vanishes", while i have the problem that on some places func_statics are rendered altough they are in a completly closed area

Got a screen shot..?

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I never had issues with f_s's crossing visportals. In fact I've used that quite a bit in my city map so visportals have a nice square fit.

 

It seems to depend on if the fs is crossing two visportal zones in which the faces of the VP are not visible to eachother and if the second one is opened will result in the first being closed, as happens if you have a loop. The places I have noticed this have all been "square" shaped areas; consider the center of the "[]" to be a building or something and the line to be an uninterupted path around the outside, if VP's are placed at the corners. If a band along the side of the building continues to the next corner it will open both the portals, in turn opening those will open the next side until it loops around behind you. However the last/first(i.e you're usually looking at it) is the one that goes black. I assume if the whole center building is a func static and not this daisy chain of side detail, you might not have this, however the portals would never close then if my guess is right.

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Got a screen shot..?

 

Sure! This kind of error is nothing new for me - and also the reason for my recently opened thread around hiding/unhiding entities (which you have noticed or not.).

 

Here is an example, taken from a little nice testmap:

 

- Shot 1 ("outside") shows two marked trees

- Shot 2 ("inside") shows them from the other side of the wall - both are still processed...

 

post-3713-130203268779_thumb.jpg

 

post-3713-130203270106_thumb.jpg

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As I alluded to in your other thread, I believe maybe the bounding box of those trees probably sticks ino the inside of the house, even though no visible part of the model does.

 

Would have to see a top down editor shot to confirm, but it is quite likely. People rotate trees for more variety/more natural. Then the bounding box is a bounding diamond. But terrain is still square, the diamond doesn't fit well...


Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

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As I alluded to in your other thread, I believe maybe the bounding box of those trees probably sticks ino the inside of the house, even though no visible part of the model does.

 

Would have to see a top down editor shot to confirm, but it is quite likely. People rotate trees for more variety/more natural. Then the bounding box is a bounding diamond. But terrain is still square, the diamond doesn't fit well...

 

unfortunatelly i don't know how to take a DR-screenshot without downloading any suitable programms from the net before. however: the separating wall on the shots has a thickness of 8 units in DR.

- one of those outdoor trees truly penetrates this wall on its outer side; it stops very close (~ 2 units) before raching the inner wall face

- the other tree does not even reach the wall; it stops at least 24 units before the outer wall face

 

=> but both trees are rendered even if the player sits in the indoor area...

 

 

well, we could discuss this endlessly. but no matter if it is the engine's fault or not and no matter if it's possible to derivate any rule here or not: at least mappers should be alerted as tall entities come close to a small leaf-border if there is another leaf behind - but mappers should check their maps with 'r_showtris x' anyway... smile.gif

 

 

just keep my warning in mind, as we all "lose" if maps suffer under unnecessary performance hunger blush.gif

Edited by Darkman

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Well, I just hit print screen, then copy/paste in photoshop/gimp.

 

Would have to take a close look at the map to see why it's doing that. As far as I can tell it shouldn't. Something is weird.

 

BTW, letting a team member look at your map and try to track down the issue might help with performance issues mod wide ;)


Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

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Well, I just hit print screen, then copy/paste in photoshop/gimp.

 

Would have to take a close look at the map to see why it's doing that. As far as I can tell it shouldn't. Something is weird.

 

BTW, letting a team member look at your map and try to track down the issue might help with performance issues mod wide wink.gif

 

 

@ print button:

ouch! i have heard of this "formidable" button but i thought the screen would immediatelly be saved somewhere but i never found out where... but if i got this right, in fact the screen is only loaded in memory, waiting there to be pasted... /facepalm

@ issue:

hm, maybe not the worst idea smile.gif

well, is any team interested in looking at my testmap to investigate this "phenomenon"?

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