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Sotha

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I was thinking to add a new level of depth in my upcoming mission and write a history book about the Tanner's Ward in Bridgeport. Those who played Mandrasola have visited the Tanner's Ward waterfront already.

 

I've perused the wiki for universe background but that, like it should (*), leaves many things unanswered.

 

(*) Mappers can bend the universe according to their needs and not be constrained by the time.

 

The history book needs few solid elements, which should be decided in the universe. What is the current year, roughly? And what is the chronology based on? How old is the City of Bridgeport, roughly?

 

Some might argue that mappers can choose whatever, but I think giving an exact year will add consistency and interest to the missions: the player finds a letter with a date, and realizes that 'hey, this mission occurs a couple of years AFTER the Knighton Manor heist.' Of course the mapper can choose to have their own timeline for their own mission, but missions using the same timeline are automatically linked in some fundamental way.

 

Establishing these low level facts would make it easy for mappers to insert their missions into historical context. And those who do not want to do it, do not need to do it.

 

Does the timeline follow roughly our own universe, so the year would be something like 1500? We had the printing press around at that time. I'm no history wizard so I would love to hear other opinions about this.

 

Then there was the question of the basis of the chronology. If the Builder faith is modeled after christianity, the year should be based on some holy figure. Would the year be then 'in the year 1500 of the Master Builder?' Does the builder faith have a messiah similar to Jesus? What is exactly the basis of the chronology then? For us it was the birth of Jesus, but what would it be for the Builders? The general founding of the Church? By whom? With what consequences? The Great Persecution when the new faith was quelled, like they usually are? The founder of the Church should be the Builder saint number one, what is the most important saint's name? This information is important for Builder backgrounds and is central in defining what the Builder dogma is.

 

Or is the chronology base on something completely else than the Builder faith? The Great Eruption of the local volcano?

 

And finally. How old is the city of Bridgeport, roughly? Using London as a rough base for similarity, it would have been settled back in the year of the Master Builder 50. This way it would be roughly 1450 years old in the current setting allowing a long time line for new wards to emerge and die.

 

So... What do You think?


Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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Does the timeline follow roughly our own universe, so the year would be something like 1500? We had the printing press around at that time. I'm no history wizard so I would love to hear other opinions about this.

 

St. Lucia established the date as sometime in the 1630's, I believe.

 

If the Builder faith is modeled after christianity, the year should be based on some holy figure. Would the year be then 'in the year 1500 of the Master Builder?' Does the builder faith have a messiah similar to Jesus?

 

Our readables do use "Anno Domini" (in the year of our Lord) so the calendar should be tied to something related to the Builder religon.

 

They don't have any "son of god" mythology, but they do have a Moses-like prophet, Amos (The Builder Bible is called the "Book of Amos"). Perhaps the year 1 (there's no year 0 in the Gregorian calendar) was when The Lord Builder gave Amos some Builder equivalent of the stone tablets. Previous to that there would have been lots of pagan religions, so there would indeed have been a lot of fighting between them and the early Builder Church, just like our own history.

 

Not sure what the years before that would be called. "BC" obviously doesn't fit. Probably "ante something", whatever the significant event at year 1 was.

 

And finally. How old is the city of Bridgeport, roughly? Using London as a rough base for similarity, it would have been settled back in the year of the Master Builder 50. This way it would be roughly 1450 years old

 

Something like that. The birthplace of the Builder religion is probably in the Empire's capitol (the equivalent of Rome--forget what it's called in our setting). But Bridgeport might have existed as some kind of pagan settlement even earlier than that.

 

Incidentally, this demonstrates why I think it's valuable to have our setting vaguely based on real-life history. While we're not bound by anything specific, it gives everyone the same basic foundation to start from.

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Thanks, Sotha! I was hoping to start up a background thread like this to exchange ideas - but like you I desire the majority of the timeline to be malleable.

 

Like SH says - I rather imagine that the Builder faith /doesn't/ have a persecution figure like Christ - but an Old Testament flavour Moses figure. That is to say - the Builder faith is besieged by the Old Ways from the beginning and seeks to stamp them out rather than absorb them!

 

That's just my own opinion though.

 

I would love it if Bridgeport had had a clear Cataclysm like the City in Thief - a sealed section or some ill-thought-of neighbourhood with ominous stone seals where hundreds of years ago the undead had been beaten back underground (just barely) .


"No proposition Euclid wrote,

No formulae the text-books know,

Will turn the bullet from your coat,

Or ward the tulwar's downward blow

Strike hard who cares—shoot straight who can—

The odds are on the cheaper man."

 

From 'Arithmetic on the Frontier' by Rudyard Kipling

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I would love it if Bridgeport had had a clear Cataclysm like the City in Thief - a sealed section or some ill-thought-of neighbourhood with ominous stone seals where hundreds of years ago the undead had been beaten back underground (just barely) .

 

Plagueward, maybe? http://modetwo.net/d...stricts_of_Note

 

@Spring

Thanks!

 

Maybe some of the most important info should be added to the wiki Universe-pages? I cannot edit it.

  • Year of the current setting: 1600-1650
  • Amos and Book of Amos
  • Rough estimate of Bridgeport founding year: "There is much debate, but most scholars agree that The City was founded between years 50-150 anno domini"


Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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D'oh! I can't believe I forgot the Plague Ward - I was pre occupied with the flooded quarter - which has a great place in my visual mental imagery is a kind of "collapsing Venice", streets turned to canals and pavements into piers through the flooding! Thanks, Sotha.

 

If you didn't fancy "AD" Springhell, perhaps an "Anno Revelatione" year of the "revelation" given by the Holy Builder to Amos? Fiddling about with Google Translate here from English to Latin trying to find something appropriate...

 

Year of Founding? Year of Foundation? Hrrrm.


"No proposition Euclid wrote,

No formulae the text-books know,

Will turn the bullet from your coat,

Or ward the tulwar's downward blow

Strike hard who cares—shoot straight who can—

The odds are on the cheaper man."

 

From 'Arithmetic on the Frontier' by Rudyard Kipling

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I like 'year of the foundation'

 

Sounds very Builderesque, a word which fails spell check.


Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

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If you didn't fancy "AD" Springhell, perhaps an "Anno Revelatione" year of the "revelation"

 

It's not AD that is the problem...we have already used that in a number of missions, so I think it's well established. It's "BC" (Before Christ) that wouldn't make sense. If we have a year 1 AD, then we need a term for the period before that. Some kind of Latin phrase starting with "ante" (before) would make the most sense. What's Latin for "Before the Revelation"?

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If "AD" means "In the year of our Lord", another possibility could be "In the Year before our Lord", whatever that translates to in Latin.

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That would be Ante Dominus, I believe. But that's also "AD". :)

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I am pretty sure we can come up with a story that transform BC into something like "before church" - e.g. before the event that founded the church and the time the church actually started to exist.


"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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I am pretty sure we can come up with a story that transform BC into something like "before church" - e.g. before the event that founded the church and the time the church actually started to exist.

 

Yep, this Before Church is something that I thought as well. Or maybe there are several competing terms:

All the Builders want to use BA (Before Amos) to commemorate the prophet.

Ordinary people, who probably wouldn't be well familiar with the intricacies of the faith, would use BC (Before Church).

 

And thus the terms are used interchangeably, but True Builders can raise their eyebrows in contempt when someone uses the "uneducated" term BC in their presence. :D


Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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Whoa, cool. I'm on a tour with my symphony at the moment, but maybe I should be researching and writing some mythos and terminology for the builders. Put my Latin & Greek and medieval history studies to some use.

 

Make it "Anno Revelationis". "In the year of [the] revelation" if you want that terminology.

 

Another useful noun: Marcus (large hammer) or Marculus (smaller handheld hammer)

There's also Malleus - "hammer" , but that's got a more violent warlike connotation.


yay seuss crease touss dome in ouss nose tair

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Whoa, cool. I'm on a tour with my symphony at the moment, but maybe I should be researching and writing some mythos and terminology for the builders. Put my Latin & Greek and medieval history studies to some use.

 

Make it "Anno Revelationis". "In the year of [the] revelation" if you want that terminology.

 

Another useful noun: Marcus (large hammer) or Marculus (smaller handheld hammer)

There's also Malleus - "hammer" , but that's got a more violent warlike connotation.

 

Sorry "Springhell", I guess I had infernal things on my mind. x-D

 

But to MD, that is very cool - I'd love to see your thoughts on the matter - and correct any awful attempts I make to use Google Translates English >>> Latin! I would like to mention here the Malleus Maleficarum (Der Hexenhammer) = The Hammer of Witches. Since that is the kind of very forthright book title I imagine the Builder's Sermons having. =-P


"No proposition Euclid wrote,

No formulae the text-books know,

Will turn the bullet from your coat,

Or ward the tulwar's downward blow

Strike hard who cares—shoot straight who can—

The odds are on the cheaper man."

 

From 'Arithmetic on the Frontier' by Rudyard Kipling

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But to MD, that is very cool - I'd love to see your thoughts on the matter - and correct any awful attempts I make to use Google Translates English >>> Latin! I would like to mention here the Malleus Maleficarum (Der Hexenhammer) = The Hammer of Witches. Since that is the kind of very forthright book title I imagine the Builder's Sermons having. =-P

Sure. :) I know ein ganz bisschen Deutsch from when it was originally part of my BA minor.

 

I have some fire-and-brimstone ecclesiastical writings I can adapt for the builders. I'll see what I can come up with and present to the team. I know there are some better writers and artistic minds there than mine.


yay seuss crease touss dome in ouss nose tair

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By the way, what does that "fire-and-brimstone" thing mean? Does it stand for "You will all go to hell if you don't obey the Lord"?


My Eigenvalue is bigger than your Eigenvalue.

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'fire and brimstone' usually means something magical, or things that go bang, or explosive magic. brimstone is sulphur or sulfur depends where you come from.

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By the way, what does that "fire-and-brimstone" thing mean? Does it stand for "You will all go to hell if you don't obey the Lord"?

 

Basically, yes. It is usually used to describe religious preachers who are very rigid in their views and who rely heavily on the "stick" of Hell to motivate people. I've also seen it used more casually to refer to any preacher who is very passionate but old-fashioned.

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An aside, but I think putting in German phrases could be cool as well. I think the gloomy industrial city, and harsh puritan like Builders could use some German terms. "Hexenhammer" is awesome!

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My interpretation is that the best real world city to model Bridgeport is Constantinople. It's on the edge of the Empire skirting the line with the Menoan civilization (sort of the Arabic/ Turkish equivalent), with a lot of warfare, more cosmopolitan and mixed races, and some tension in the Church between Bridgeport & the capital, similar to our Eastern & Western Churches but without literally splitting as happened in our history. (Except "east" and "west" are reversed. The Bridgeport Cardinal has more power & autonomy than other cardinals, and tensions with the High Patriarch, but still formally subservient). I think it's good to be a pre-Builder city and center of a more ancient pre-Builder civilization (Byzantium, Lyngos), and a Builder successor city, where there was a definite important moment in history when the Empire occupied Bridgeport and renamed it, maybe in the early 100s. (It also allows for a Lost City & Bonehorde types of areas under Bridgeport from the ancient civilization, equivalent of Greek-speaking Roman empire & Thracians.)

 

I couldn't find the name of the Imperial capital in the wiki either, but thought Sancta Civitas would really get across its flavor. Or maybe it has another name and Sancta Civitas is like Vatican City, the mini Builder Church establishment enclave.

 

By the way, this is probably a good time to announce that since I read about the coming campaign functionality, I've been scripting out a Campaign to function as giving a Bridgeport backstory and narrative for all the big factions and Bridgeport wards. I was going to start a thread on it as soon as I got a good chunk of it ready, which is about now.


What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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One of my absolute favourite bits of in game flavour text was from the original Thief games - a kind of Old Testament flavour Builder story of a father's son returning to him and saying he needed tools to work with - and each time his father giving him a single tool. Every time the son returns and says "But father I know not how to use these tools" and so his Father cuts off his hands - "These are the finest tools you have - and if you know not how to use them I shall take them away". Chilled me reading it. It's a fine line between Biblical parody and really capturing the harsh flavour of the world our thieves work in - I feel. I've read a couple of flavour pieces in TDM that are spot on - and a couple which went too far and just made me chuckle.

 

@Demagogue: Yes, cities built on cities, essentially. That's kind of what I think as well - although the relative isolation and reliance on sea trade with foreign invaders puts me in mind of London crossed with an Italian city-state. I kind of think of it was perhaps the grotty 18th century London or Edinburgh crossed with the rampant expansion and canal work of the industrial "red brick" cities.

 

This for me is kind of a "mini-Bridgeport" vision - conflating Liverpool and Manchester into one city, built atop the foundation of London, with the countryside around it still concievably pagan - or at least - civilization kind of "stopping" suddenly, afraid to go further out into the wild.

 

Cottonopolis1.jpg

A thick black smoke covers the city. The sun appears like a disc without any rays. In this semi-daylight 300,000 people work ceaselessly. A thousand noises rise amidst this unending damp and dark labyrinth ...the footsteps of a busy crowd, the crunching wheels of machines, the shriek of steam from the boilers, the regular beat of looms, the heavy rumble of carts, these are the only noises from which you can never escape in these dark half-lit streets ..—
,
Oeuvres Completes
, (1835)

Edited by Glyph Seeker

"No proposition Euclid wrote,

No formulae the text-books know,

Will turn the bullet from your coat,

Or ward the tulwar's downward blow

Strike hard who cares—shoot straight who can—

The odds are on the cheaper man."

 

From 'Arithmetic on the Frontier' by Rudyard Kipling

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My interpretation is that the best real world city to model Bridgeport is Constantinople.

 

I took a great deal of inspiration from Constantinople. Look closely at the map of Bridgeport and you'll see that it's a mirror image. :)

 

I think it's good to be a pre-Builder city and center of a more ancient pre-Builder civilization (Byzantium, Lyngos), and a Builder successor city, where there was a definite important moment in history when the Empire occupied Bridgeport and renamed it,

 

That's also fine with me. Perhaps it was a pagan city, like Babylon or Crete, before being conquered by the Empire.

 

.—Alexis de Tocqueville , Oeuvres Completes,

 

Awesome quote! :)

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I took a great deal of inspiration from Constantinople. Look closely at the map of Bridgeport and you'll see that it's a mirror image. :)

 

Oh, cool! This information is exciting too. Is the scale the same? The river would be something like 500m across and the whole city area would be something like 5x5km.


Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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Oh, cool! This information is exciting too. Is the scale the same?

 

Not really. Bridgeport is much larger than Constantinople was at the time of that map, so everything would need to be scaled up a bit.

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