Is non euclidian geometric level design possible?

[i30817]

You know, things like a mobius strip, a klein bottle.

 

Or if you want normal geometry even simpler things like changing the down direction, spheroid terrain, endless corridors, trick corridors (that teleport you to a identical seeming but actually different place where you thought you were going seamlessly. Rooms larger inside than outside, the old T1 classic water running uphill

 

 

etc.

Edited May 29, 2011 by i30817

[STiFU]

Hmn, I think we once had a similar topic around these forums. Oh yeah, here you go.

[Jesps]

Illusionist's Tower by stumpy has some of that.

[Komag]

Oh goodness, yeah it does, but, blech! I mean the mission has some really good parts, but those repeating teleporting sections were hard to love

[nbohr1more]

I recently asked AluminumHaste to bump the Doom3world topic on the "Prey style portals Mod" but Pbmax hasn't replied...

 

I think though, RemoteRenderMap and func_camera are the trick here.

 

Basically, if I understand correctly, any material with RemoteRenderMap applied to any entity that is a target for a func_camera will render a view from said camera. The trick for the portal view is to play with the scale and FOV so that it matches the expected result in the portal view.

 

I am presuming that the Prey mod has the RemoteRenderMap material applied to a Func_Portal and that a teleport is immediately after that Func_Portal.

 

I think this could also be an alternate LOD method that might work better in City areas.

 

Basically, create a LOD version of your city and project it via Remote View onto all your Func_Portals. Presuming you cut your polys, textures and light counts (etc) enough it would allow for longer street views. Yes, pop-in would happen but it could be minimized by having an alphatest plane with the same projection fade out during the transition...

[nbohr1more]

Here is the Security Camera tutorial, the details here should be enough to get cracking on Portal rendering:

 

http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=3782

 

Of course, if you wanted really trippy non-euclidian scenes you'd have to use stuff like shear or even a custom heathaze.vpf deform normal map to do some anamorphic projection tricks to the remote render...

[OrbWeaver]

the old T1 classic water running uphill

 

Unlike the others you mention, this one would actually be easy (AFAIK). It doesn't violate Euclidean geometry, just gravity, and presumably can be achieved simply by setting the appropriate direction on the water forcefield.

[Diego]

You could emulate a compact non-orientable space, but I can't see any easy way of doing so.. let's take a simple example: Say there's a corridor (L shaped, so we don't have to worry about infinite mirrors effect) and as you cross a door you're back to the front door. But now everything is inverted, as in a mirror. That's the Klein bottle equivalent for a 3d 'surface'.

 

I don't know how the engine works exactly, but I think you could do this by having two corridors, one being the mirror of the other, and teleport from one to the other. Your "only" concern would be to synchronize both of them (including dynamical objects) which sounds very complicated.

 

Or you could somehow invert the image. And that also sounds like something you would need access to the rendering engine.

 

Not to mention the problem of the interface between the "two" corridors (the're supposed to be the same) it would have to be seamless.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Diego

[stumpy]

or you could turn off the lights just before the player gets teleported then turn them on again after the teleport, as info teleport orientates the player to its coords, or a quick flash of white light would also do the trick of blinding a player so they miss the fact they've been teleported.

 

you can do bottomless pits, just put a teleport at the bottom targetting the exit at the top, add a script so it dims the lights as you drop, till pitchblack then teleport the player elsewhere, like a kill brush or because of the speed they would be traveling at, a plain floor would kill them. or if you want them to survive, drop them in deep water.

[demagogue]

There are a few Thief 2 FMs that use seamless teleports and they work really well (the tomb in A Meeting with Basso, Temple of Tides, one with patrolling fire-elements I forget the name just now, a few others). I know it's another engine, but it's proof of concept. Since the player's orientation is the same coming out, as long as the brushwork & lighting is the exact same players can't notice they've been teleported.

 

As for dynamic objects; best thing is to just keep their inventory clear of stuff they might drop. Or you could destroy objects that get dropped in front of their eyes in a puff of smoke. Keep it simple. (Or depending on the puzzle maybe having them drop stuff that comes & goes would be consistent with the weird alt-reality.)

[jaxa]

The relatively new T2 FM "Fables of the Penitent Thief" also includes examples of upside down rooms, seamless teleportation and miniaturization.

[Glyph Seeker]

I just saw http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/07/01/brain-bending-torsion/ and it made me think of this topic!

Edited July 1, 2011 by Glyph Seeker