New Contest? (2nd Edition)

[stumpy]

the same would go for missions based on old mansions, the concept of corridors in buildings came in in the 1800's, so the majority of buildings pre 1800's have nothing like corridor's in them, its just rooms separated by doors. Majority of corridors in old castles arn't corridors, they're rooms, just the furniture been removed by someone who thinks its a corridor and shouldn't have furniture that goes in a room, thats buildings in the real world, not in a game map.

 

If you want to base a building on a roman building, you'll have a problem as most medieval churches in the uk are based on standard roman buildings that slaves and general romans used to live in. the roman type buildings that you can find in american cities are based on roman temples, you have to remember that the ruler of roman rome consider himself a god, and gods live in temples, roman temples are also based on greek temples, which in turn are based on egyptian temples.

 

old medieval houses would be boring to use in a game map, those outside cities, consist of 2 or one long room, with the animals at the back of the house and the people at the front, people would, cook and sleep all in one room. and in the cities you would just be living in one room and for a toilet you would crap out of the window. they never took baths and were usually sown into their clothing. as in buttons would be sown to the button holes. Underwear wasn't introduced till the late 1800's. if you had a time machine and you went back to medieval times the smell would probably kill you. no baths, no toilets, open sewers, no deoderant, no toilet paper.

 

And the rats, if you've ever seen a big black rat, you would run a mile, black always wet looking fur, size of a medium size dog, very long bare scaly tail, not anything like the brown rats you see in movies, black rats are huge compared to the small brown rat.

[Professor Paul1290]

Well, it's not so much about resembling real life as it is about avoiding having the map feel too tailored for the task at hand.

 

I'm not exactly that knowledgeable about historic architecture, and I might not be getting the point across saying "realistic" here.

 

In games with a modern day setting I prefer a realistic setting just because there just so happens to be lot of modern day real-life locations that really lend themselves to this. They're not really inherently better because they are real, a lot of them just so happen to be that way by coincidence so I'm used to using real life as an example for this. All the time I see every day neighborhoods and public areas like malls, airports, offices and large houses that I think would make for nice gameplay.

 

Architecture from time periods resembling TDM might not offer the same convenient coincidences that a modern day setting would. I'm not much of a history expert and you probably know more about this than I do. However, in that case following real-life architecture wouldn't really achieve the desired ends at all and departing from reality may very well be a better alternative.

 

I mention making more than one mission for the map because I think that's a good test to see if the map isn't too specifically made for the mission, and I think that should work regardless of architectural style or time period.

 

I guess rather than "realistic" it would be better to say that the maps should try to make logical sense in the reality they are set in, even if that reality might not be our own. Again, it's more important that the setting feel like it was there before the mission rather than made for the mission.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Professor Paul1290

[STiFU]

Adding gameplay after building the map: Always a bad idea! What good can come from a map that is 100 % realistic, if no AI can navigate it for example. You also always have to build around engine limitations et cetera. If you reduce your contest-idea to "non-linear level-design", you'd totally get my vote though.

[DeTeEff]

It feels a bit like taking a chunk out of the maps in GTA and base a mission on that "neightborhood". That it's a real place where people live, and where the mission is played out. Springheel achieved this top notch in his A Score to Settle.

 

In my big main map "Not An Ordinary Guest" I'm actually trying to achieve a more "free roaming friendly" environment. And I almost feel successive at this because my friend complained a bit that the mission was a bit too much around the outside areas and not so much on the main goal. This is indeed a small problem because in a game you often want a climactical center piece, where the tension is strong, and this may be washed out if the surroundings are too prominent.

[Professor Paul1290]

Adding gameplay after building the map: Always a bad idea! What good can come from a map that is 100 % realistic, if no AI can navigate it for example. You also always have to build around engine limitations et cetera. If you reduce your contest-idea to "non-linear level-design", you'd totally get my vote though.

 

Dang, somehow I knew even typing in the word "realistic" would bite me somehow, yet no matter how many times it does I never seem to learn.

 

Of course you have to build around engine limitations, which is why I say "at least attempt to build" and "within reason". If you've made the map so that it has severe performance problems or can't be navigated by AI then it has already gone beyond "within reason".

I don't think it would turn out well if someone tried blindly recreating a real-life setting, and if that's what it sounds like then it's definitely terrible wording on my part.

 

I think would be especially terrible if the mapper made a map that the AI couldn't navigate effectively because one of my pet peeves about the linear nature of some maps is that it doesn't just limit the player, but does not allow for AI and objects to flow through the map well either. The guard isn't as threatening hearing me from the next room over if he has to pass through ten other rooms and get to me the long way around (OK that's a bit extreme but you get the idea).

 

 

You're probably right that making it "non-linear map design" would probably be much clearer and more to the point.

However, I hesitated with that somewhat because it is rather subjective and different people have different ideas on what it means to be "non-linear". Some people add a few vents and open-able windows somewhere and some people think you need a hub with little objectives scattered all over the place.

 

 

It feels a bit like taking a chunk out of the maps in GTA and base a mission on that "neightborhood". That it's a real place where people live, and where the mission is played out. Springheel achieved this top notch in his A Score to Settle.

 

I guess that could be one way of thinking about it.

 

I agree that A Score to Settle, whether intentionally or not, does seem to achieve some of the ends that such a contest would shoot for. It does at times feel like a chunk of Bridgeport the mission takes place in.

 

I like the map in The Alchemist despite its problems because I keep seeing all sorts of cool things in my head that could happen in that map aside from the mission it has. Just the idea that stuff can happen in the place makes it interesting despite the plain buildings and such.

 

I also like Knighton Manor for this as well. There are some mission-specific pieces like the attic and the alarm system of course. However, I could see other possible missions with the layout of the manor going on if things turned out differently, like if the manor was passed on to another character who decided to remodel it to his/her tastes. Not sure whether that would actually make for an interesting FM, but just the sense that something like that might possibly work helps make the map feel more immersive.

[Shadowhide]

why i still cant vote

[Melan]

You probably have to delete your previous vote first.

[Shadowhide]

i done that already

[Chiron]

I cannot vote either. I get the error:

 

"[#10355] You must cast your vote in each question of the poll. "

[Shadowhide]

still cant vote

 

dark secret is the best idea

 

i'm very skeptic about speed build

 

what is Free form ? what does it mean ?

 

Thief 2 FMs Remakes are pointless.remakes wont be better than output mission anyway

 

High Security - i hate such kind of missions.i never like Thief 2 bank OM because there was too much cameras,robots and guards.High Security is rather boring than interesting

 

Puzzle contest - i like this idea.i also know how to make oldschool "item on item" puzzle (there was one in winterharvest)

 

 

[lost_soul]

Well, Halloween is coming up very soon. It would be cool to see a haunted mansion or something else as great as Flakebridge or Glenham.

[demagogue]

I can't vote so I'll just post it.

Dark Secret seems coolest to me.

But a Halloween theme would be practically the same thing so if that wins I wouldn't be disappointed.

[stumpy]

i would do a halloween map but not if its a speed build. and not use pumpkins as thats an american custom. regardless of what the halloween wiki says, sure that some of that is wrong.

[SiyahParsomen]

This poll is cursed. I just deleted my vote to try voting againg and I can't vote anymore, even same choice. It was 20 votes now it's 19 in total. lol

[Bikerdude]

LOL, its the Halloween aspect....

[Springheel]

According to History.com:

 

People have been making jack o'lanterns at Halloween for centuries. The practice originated from an Irish myth about a man nicknamed "Stingy Jack." ...

As the legend goes, God would not allow such an unsavory figure into heaven. The Devil, upset by the trick Jack had played on him and keeping his word not to claim his soul, would not allow Jack into hell. He sent Jack off into the dark night with only a burning coal to light his way. Jack put the coal into a carved-out turnip and has been roaming the Earth with ever since. The Irish began to refer to this ghostly figure as "Jack of the Lantern," and then, simply "Jack O'Lantern."

 

In Ireland and Scotland, people began to make their own versions of Jack's lanterns by carving scary faces into turnips or potatoes and placing them into windows or near doors to frighten away Stingy Jack and other wandering evil spirits. In England, large beets are used. Immigrants from these countries brought the jack o'lantern tradition with them when they came to the United States. They soon found that pumpkins, a fruit native to America, make perfect jack o'lanterns.

 

Here's a Turnip Jack-o-lantern:

 

That's good enough for me.

[Shadowhide]

u guys fix poll nwo.i want to vote

 

 

[nbohr1more]

I wonder if that tale has any relation to the even older "Hop-tu-Naa" celebration from the Isle of Man:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hop-tu-Naa

 

For modern Hop-tu-Naa children dress up and go from house to house with the hope of being given sweets or money, as elsewhere. However the children carry carved turnip lanterns rather than pumpkins and sing Hop-tu-naa songs. In older times children would have also brought the stumps of turnips with them and batter the doors of those who refused to give them any money. (An ancient form of trick or treat, however this practice appears to have died out.)

 

Some of the older customs are similar to those now attached to the January new year. It was a time for prophesying, weather prediction and fortune-telling. The ashes of the fire were smoothed out on the hearth last thing at night to receive the imprint of a foot.

 

If, next morning, the track pointed towards the door, someone in the house would die, but if the footprint pointed inward, it indicated a birth.

 

A cake was made which was called Soddag Valloo or Dumb Cake, because it was made and eaten in silence. Young women and girls all had a hand in baking it on the red embers of the hearth, first helping to mix the ingredients, flour, eggs, eggshells, soot and salt, and kneading the dough. The cake was divided up and eaten in silence and, still without speaking, all who had eaten it went to bed, walking backwards, expecting and hoping to see their future husband in a dream or vision.

 

Another means of divination was to steal a salt herring from a neighbour, roast it over the fire, eat it in silence and retire to bed.

 

The future husband was expected to appear in the dream and offer a drink of water