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Suggestion for contests...


AluminumHaste
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This is all based off my personal observations, so take with a grain of salt.

During this most recent contest I noticed that my expectations and attitudes changed while playing the different missions. This is because of the different release dates namely SH mission was so early and now we have several today on the last day. I find that to be fair in voting that I had to replay some missions to give them a fair chance in comparison to the most recently played.

It is my suggestion that contest missions should be released at the same time, on the release date, so that they can all be played within a short time to prevent unwanted bias while voting later on.

This would also have the side effect of forcing map makers to take more time to create/test their missions before releasing them.

 

Just a thought, don't kill me.

I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

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i very much doubt release date has much to do with it. I think personal expectations change based solely on the order in which contest missions are played. if I played bikers mission first, i would have different expectations of jesps mission than if i played shadowhides mission first, etc etc. I don't think timing has much to do with it.

 

edit: errr.. thinking on that for more than 2 seconds, that probably has a lot to do with it. if the mission release dates are staggered too far apart, then obviously most people will play missions in a certain order. If everybody played a very early release of Dram's contest mission first (daydreaming here), then likely every other mission would drop a point or 2 in contrast after having nearly died from awesomeness. perhaps a more random playorder (based on similarly timed release dates) could do well by these contests.

Edited by ungoliant
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No need to be defensive, I'm sure that this is a topic that folks may be uncertain or on-the-fence about.

 

In my opinion, it's good to have missions released throughout the contest so that there is more promotional exposure. Every time a new "event" like a mission release occurs a potential new TDM player\mapper\etc may be exposed to the mod. When TDM has no notable news content to relay, the mod languishes for long periods unseen at the bottom of the active mod listings... Even so, I can still see the POV that missions should be judged against each other at the time of release.

 

I think you should make a poll and we will have the consensus view be set for the next contest. ^_^

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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When TDM has no notable news content to relay, the mod languishes for long periods unseen at the bottom of the active mod listings... Even so, I can still see the POV that missions should be judged against each other at the time of release.

Speaking of no notable news content, Shouldn't moddb say something about 1.06? :P

yay seuss crease touss dome in ouss nose tair

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Yes.

 

I just got back from a weekend trip where I was prohibited from PC time and now I have loads of work to catch-up on...

 

I am planning a "JUNE MEGA UPDATE!!!" article which includes v1.06 and the conclusion of the Seasons contest entries.

 

I spent a good chunk of this morning before working trying to get a good torch screen-shot for the "AI Relighting behavior" improvements in v1.06

 

My apologies again...

 

I'll try to get it done tomorrow...

 

(Where's HappyCheeze when you need him :laugh: )

 

 

Edit:

 

apple-on-fire.jpg

Edited by nbohr1more

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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No need to be defensive, I'm sure that this is a topic that folks may be uncertain or on-the-fence about.

 

In my opinion, it's good to have missions released throughout the contest so that there is more promotional exposure. Every time a new "event" like a mission release occurs a potential new TDM player\mapper\etc may be exposed to the mod. When TDM has no notable news content to relay, the mod languishes for long periods unseen at the bottom of the active mod listings... Even so, I can still see the POV that missions should be judged against each other at the time of release.

 

I think you should make a poll and we will have the consensus view be set for the next contest. ^_^

 

I don't know much about these things but what about not allowing voting until after the contest close date? That way missions could still be released when ready so anyone could play them and if some are released quite early than they could always be replayed so each mission is fresh in mind when voting. Just a suggestion.

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That is also a good suggestion.

 

It does not fully resolve the original concern but it comes pretty close... I'd be tempted to say "close enough". ;)

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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Hm..

 

I believe the current system is just fine. I want to believe that an adult human being can objectively reduce any biases left over from the previous missions. Eliminating this bias is not worth starting to force the mappers release their entries at a certain time. Even if you do force the mappers, people still have their subjective biases when they play the missions. And I think it will be even more so when you see that "Oh, after 5months of no new missions, suddenly 3 come out in one night." Having the player to play multiple new missions in a short time frame will also introduce a bias. Maybe even fatigue for some.

 

I don't know much about these things but what about not allowing voting until after the contest close date? That way missions could still be released when ready so anyone could play them and if some are released quite early than they could always be replayed so each mission is fresh in mind when voting. Just a suggestion.

 

I don't know if this is a good idea. Usually you get the correct impression of the mission when you've just played it for the first time. Subsequent play times will not get you the original feeling as you know what is coming. Therefore it would not be good idea to play the mission and then force the player to wait for few months until you can vote.

 

So in the end I do not identify the problem what we are trying to fix with our suggestions. We want to get rid of some bias, which is just normal for humans: you'll get some kind of subjective error in the gradings anyway. I don't think it is a good idea to start forcing mappers or players to do something only to fix something that will be there anyways.

 

But that's for the contest organizer's to decide.

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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Like I said I was speaking from personal experience only :)

I know the medium isn't the same so bear with me here; other types of contests usually have a deadline and the judges would then judge them all one after the other such as screenshot contests, food contests, writing contests etc.

This medium of ours, the pc game, is a little different in it's delivery as absorbing and rating the content takes time. Whenever I had to do a project in school in which other people would also be presenting there's, I would always want to go first as that almost always guaranteed the most favorable review as people didn't know what to expect from everyone else's work. However, having to judge something that I could then either a) go back and change my decision or B) wait to pass judgment until the appropriate time always meant my original view was then clouded. If I could judge all works at the same time, or more realistically one after the other, then I would better able to assign a fair value to each entry without judgment being clouded by time/forgetfulness or bias.

I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

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Like I said I was speaking from personal experience only

 

Yes, of course. The only thing we can mostly do here is to speak on the basis of our personal experience, unless we quote some claims or studies made by others. That is just fine.

 

Whenever I had to do a project in school in which other people would also be presenting there's, I would always want to go first as that almost always guaranteed the most favorable review as people didn't know what to expect from everyone else's work.

 

Hey, I wanted to always to go first too. I don't think it was a guarantee for a favourable reviews, though. It was mostly the audience being in full alertness and the last presenter would have a grouchy audience due them getting tired. This is not a problem in our format as people can play when they want.

 

If I could judge all works at the same time, or more realistically one after the other, then I would better able to assign a fair value to each entry without judgment being clouded by time/forgetfulness or bias.

 

And -in our format- nothing prevents from people going back and change their votes. Maybe now when people have played the newest entries, they go back to test Mandrasola again. The votes my map received can very well change during the next few months.

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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I evaluate each FM completely independently and it would make no difference if I played one a year apart from another. In fact this evaluation is the same for every contest so you can look at all my votes for every contest and find an overall winner.

 

If you find a fair means of judging an FM and stick with it then you should not need to change that judgement later after seeing another FM. The only exception would be a novice player who perhaps goes overboard and gives perfect scores on the first FM he plays then the next one is better so he has to go back and lower the first.

 

There is a good case for saying it is unfair to go back and change an earlier vote anyway. And unfair to replay an earlier one because the first time is usually the best same as movies. That was your judgement at the time so why change it later?

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