Fan Mission 48: A Score to Settle, by Springheel (2011/07/01)

[Springheel]

Brilliant FM, Springheel, definitely on my top 5, and I've only played on easy so far.

 

Thanks!

 

There are some noticable differences at different difficulty levels, so hopefully some replay value.

 

Btw, I'm curious. Would people generally prefer to be able to do the kind of climbing shown above, where you're clearly getting places you weren't intended to, seeing the skybox, etc; or would it be better for the mapper to block off all those access points with playerclip or something?

[AluminumHaste]

Yeah it was a great mission, I really hope you can make another Springs, you definitely have the talent for it.

[Springheel]

Thanks. I was half-way through a new one in December, but got sidetracked updating St. Lucia for 1.08. Now I'm working on the Whiterose map I adopted. Depending on how heavy the beta-testing is for the 1.08 release, I might be able to finish it by the end of the summer.

[SiyahParsomen]

@simplenoob

 

I know that route as well. This mission is full of climbing spots.

 

@Springheel

 

Only 2 people mentioned these spots. So you decide.

[rich_is_bored]

Technically a map author should patch all that stuff up so it isn't possible for players to get to places they aren't supposed to go but I say leave that stuff in. I like the idea of people testing the boundaries of the map. If you do anything you should put things up there like easter eggs. Maybe some readables in the form of a design diary?

[lowenz]

Would people generally prefer to be able to do the kind of climbing shown above, where you're clearly getting places you weren't intended to, seeing the skybox, etc; or would it be better for the mapper to block off all those access points with playerclip or something?

Maybe make it an objective in outdoor missions for one particular "Vista point" (as in FUEL), so the mapper can control the player climbing-hunger

[Sotha]

I always try to patch 'em up but there is always some area that the player can get tol. It is difficult to get every-frickin'-single area properly blocked.

 

Now, if we had some cool city skyboxes, climbing to those forbidden areas would not break the immersion so badly..

[Melan]

Btw, I'm curious. Would people generally prefer to be able to do the kind of climbing shown above, where you're clearly getting places you weren't intended to, seeing the skybox, etc; or would it be better for the mapper to block off all those access points with playerclip or something?

Climbing up to places players are not expected to be is a traditional source of fun. Don't deny other people this form of enjoyment. ... or if you want to block them off, block them off with natural geometry.

 

BTW, good to hear the White Rose is progressing. It deserves to be released.

[Melan]

I always try to patch 'em up but there is always some area that the player can get tol. It is difficult to get every-frickin'-single area properly blocked.

 

Now, if we had some cool city skyboxes, climbing to those forbidden areas would not break the immersion so badly..

I can't think of a worse immersion-breaker than invisible walls stopping me in my tracks, or a supposedly solid piece of architecture proving to be thin air. Sometimes it's inevitable... but the less of this stuff, the better.

[Sotha]

I can't think of a worse immersion-breaker than invisible walls stopping me in my tracks, or a supposedly solid piece of architecture proving to be thin air. Sometimes it's inevitable... but the less of this stuff, the better.

 

I put the obstacles to keep the player in the play area. It would be stupid if there was some sort of super mario jump-on-top-of-map-geometry-to-bypass-every-obstacle -scenario in the map... But like in many things, there are as many unique opinions as there are people. Not everyone can be pleased simultaneously.

[simplen00b]

Some random thoughts/observations:

1. Could be wrong, but I think Siyah and I are in a very small minority of TDM players who like to do this sort of 'close to the edge' exploration.

2. Climbing & jumping is one of the most immersive aspects of TDM for me. I got lost in this FM for well over an hour just clambering around the roofs before I thought "Oh yeah - better start trying to fulfill the objectives I guess" .

3. My attitude to mappers that allow that kind of exploration (whether they intended to or not) is complete and utter gratitude.

4. The core essence of Thief/TDM is 'going somewhere you're not meant to go'. A few of us just like taking that concept and extending it to the game mechanics themselves, in a meta, er, contextual exploration of the very nature of, um, something. Whatever. Look, I just really enjoy it, OK?

5. I've always loved this picture:

Can't really explain it - I just love that woozy, quite surreal feeling of the 'earth meeting the sky', and that's what I get from this kind of climbing in TDM.

6. I don't want to add to the already huge workload that mappers face, but if they wanted to leave little notes in areas that they think are inaccessible but may not be (sounds like it isn't easy to tell), that's fine. They could just say something like "Aren't you an old clever clogs then?" (or "Hi Siyah & simplen00b!" ).

Unless it was a Sotha map, in which case I would expect a note saying "Curiosity killed the cat", triggering an army of undead to suddenly appear and start advancing across the rooftops toward me, hurling poison darts and fireballs as the entire map filled up with hydrochloric acid.

7. However (in all seriousness) I'm fine with things as they are, and grateful for the maps that get produced whether I can get close to the skybox in them or not. I would beseech mappers not to start smothering areas with playerclip, but end of the day, their map, not mine.

8. I'll try to get round to posting a review of 'Score to Settle' at some point in an effort to get the thread back on topic.

[Bikerdude]

3. My attitude to mappers that allow that kind of exploration (whether they intended to or not) is complete and utter gratitude.

I try to consider that when building maps, and I'm getting better at it. I like to learn from Melan is a master at building streets that look complicated yet have low perf requirements.

[simplen00b]

OK, now finished playing hardcore (for the third time):

 

The 'more lights on increased difficulty' idea is great! Is this the first time it's been done? The main one I noticed was the lamp in Sykes' room - really ramped up the difficulty, and whatever I did to get him to move (throw the beer mug, make a bit of noise), he always ended up facing towards me and I couldn't see how to get to him. My technique now is

mantle across the table and stove to the far corner, then creep up on him from behind.

At one point he did see me in the corner, but instead of coming to attack me, he just stood shouting curses and throwing stones at me (the guards outside came belting in as well). I managed to get up into the attic and cleared it out (and discovered there's no gas arrow up there on hardcore ) - TBH, can't remember if things had quietened down by the time I came down again, or whether they were still on alert and I just did a cowardy-custard reload.

 

 

In general, the objectives all unfolded pretty logically for me - I think I may have found Syke's HQ before Gridley's but I couldn't see Gridley hanging around so many thugs so I kept hunting for Galloway Road. Even found the attic-switch pretty easily, but I think it was more by luck than skill, and have worked out how to trigger the trap without getting hit.

 

The only glitch I sometimes get is with the chain dangling near the upper balcony inside Sykes' HQ:

 

I climbed down it to get to the thugs downstairs - a couple of times when I tried to jump off, I started instead to get slowly 'sucked back' up to the top, no matter what direction keys I pressed, and a couple of times I've suddenly died for no reason I can see. Anyone else had this?

 

 

Sykes' "special room" is really very nasty - definitely not suitable for children. You've created quite a memorable baddie for a small/medium mission - I usually try to adopt a 'no-kill' policy in my gameplay (I never really like 'forced-kill' objectives), but he's one of the few FM characters I'd be happy to top. Maybe in the future...

 

Really like the final section

 

with the raised alarm - like you say, it stops it from just being a "schlepp back to point X" (especially for those of us who leave piles of KO'd bodies in our wake), and man, is it hard on hardcore! (Duh.) The way the thugs block the only possible route can get borderline frustrating, but third time through, I did make it back to Gridley's without killing anyone. Mind, it's so difficult I was forced to actually use flash bombs successfully for maybe the first time ever in TDM. One time I had a torch-bearing thug bear down on me; somehow I managed to outrun him, then ran into another thug; I managed to elude him but he was blocking my exit and prowling around for me - he got so close I stood and dropped both flash bombs just as he turned away, so they had no effect .

Got busted and ended up doing a reload that took me all the way back to Syke's HQ, which is an indication of how immersed I had got (I usually quicksave every 30 seconds). And I've still got 85 loot to find.

 

Oh, and final comment on the skybox-climbing thing: on reflection, I think I treat that as a separate 'game' in itself to the actual mission. I usually indulge in that kind of exploration when I've knocked everyone out and completed most of the objectives - I just got into it first off in this FM cos I saw that flag pole sticking out the wall, thought "Thank you very much" and was up at the skybox within about 30 seconds of mission start . But I can't combine the two - I did try and it just felt wrong. Really glad when I have the chance to play both though!

 

So, again, excellent FM - great layout and architecture, good story, memorable characters, and you've hit one of the best levels of challenging-but-not-frustrating gameplay so far, IMHO. Many thanks.

[Springheel]

Wow, very enjoyable review, thanks.

 

Mind, it's so difficult I was forced to actually use flash bombs successfully for maybe the first time ever in TDM.

 

Good to hear. I figure if you can get through the mission without using equipment, it was too easy.

 

You've created quite a memorable baddie for a small/medium mission - I usually try to adopt a 'no-kill' policy in my gameplay (I never really like 'forced-kill' objectives), but he's one of the few FM characters I'd be happy to top. Maybe in the future...

 

I definitely have intentions to bring him back in the future.

[Glyph Seeker]

Hey!

 

Finally got round to catching up on some TDM - and played this as my first!

 

I had played briefly before but that was with the bug that stopped the main objective being filled.

 

Now I had a fabulous time - lots of sneaksy-ing about - as usual I only play on Normal, had a lot of fun! Absolutely loved...

 

 

The alarm being raised no matter what you do - genuine moment of panic - used 2 flash bombs, alerting enemies without feeling like I failed, the intro and outro too were brilliant!

 

 

4/5 across the whole board for me, ace! =-)

[Springheel]

Thanks Glyph!

[lowenz]

A 1.08 edition, challenging In the North?

[Springheel]

When TDM goes fully standalone I'll probably have to update the mission, as it relies on some D3 assets. But I won't be making any significant changes.

 

One of these days I hope to get back to the small "speed build" (ha!) mission I was working on and finish that.

[lowenz]

A video for this jewel

 

[Springheel]

Watching that makes me think it's way too easy to KO people....

[lowenz]

Or I'm a master

[TheUnbeholden]

Keeps randomly crashing when I go into Down Street, sometimes near the beginning of the place, other times after 10-30 seconds.

 

Really disappointing considering I've never had crashes before.

Edited April 18, 2013 by TheUnbeholden

[Bikerdude]

What are your system specs..?

[TheUnbeholden]

XP Professional SP 3

DX 9.0c

AMD Intel Core 2 Duo, E4600 @ 2.4 GHz

2.00 GB of RAM

NVIDIA GeForce GTS 450

P5K PRO

 

latest Dark Mod.

Edited April 19, 2013 by TheUnbeholden

[Bikerdude]

XP Professional SP 3

DX 9.0c

AMD Intel Core 2 Duo, E4600 @ 2.4 GHz

2.00 GB of RAM

NVIDIA GeForce GTS 450

P5K PRO

 

Well that should be able to play TDM without crashing for a start, and play it at medium + settings. What settings are you using in TDM...?