Jump to content
The Dark Mod Forums

Pro Vocals need redoing


Springheel

Recommended Posts

Let's face it; the current "Pro" vocals are terrible. The delivery is awkward and the intonation sounds stiff and unnatural. Unfortunately, this vocal set is the default for a number of common characters, including the proguard and citywatch, and so this vocal set is frequently heard in Youtube clips, and I'm sure it fuels most of the comments about TDM having poor vocals. I want to get rid of it.

 

Just switching the characters to a different default voice isn't really an option, though, as it would wreck missions with custom conversations using the Pro voice.

 

I'm wondering if there's anyone out there who thinks they could match the basic sound of the pro voice, but could do a better job delivering the lines. If so, please let me know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally wouldn't say they're terrible, but they could use some work. I noticed how great the new builder character sounds who was added in 1.05 or 1.06... not sure.

 

I may decide to do some recording this weekend. If I do and if it doesn't sound like complete ****, I'll post it here. Are we supposed to sound angry? suspicious? How about laid-back like we're interracting with other guards? I guess a bit of each would be the best bet.

--- War does not decide who is right, war decides who is left.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are we supposed to sound angry? suspicious? How about laid-back like we're interracting with other guards? I guess a bit of each would be the best bet.

 

Yes, whatever is appropriate for line you're delivering. I'll do a little tweaking but I don't plan on rewriting the entire script, so most of the lines will stay the same as they are now.

 

Here was the original description of the "pro":

 

"The Pro" -- shrewd; tough and confident. The pro has been doing this a long time, and knows he’s good. He’s not well educated, so may speak a bit roughly. He’s a bit gruff, a man of few words. Think Bruce Willis in Die Hard. The Pro keeps a level head most of the time and is not overly emotional.

 

I noticed how great the new builder character sounds who was added in 1.05 or 1.06... not sure.

 

Unfortunately we can't use them because of the built-in reverb.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, part of what made the Thief 1 vocals outstandingly awesome was that they were actually yelling at the player. I think that's what a lot of the TDM vocals lack. They mutter a bit too much. When they should say something very LOUD like the fact that they've spotted a thief, sometimes it isn't loud enough to be threatening.

 

What's wrong with a *slight* pre-baked echo in the vocals? Thief had this as well. I guess they did this because not everyone had EAX hardware and voices would echo in a place like Bafford's or Constantine's.

Edited by lost_soul

--- War does not decide who is right, war decides who is left.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, part of what made the Thief 1 vocals outstandingly awesome was that they were actually yelling at the player. I think that's what a lot of the TDM vocals lack.

 

Yes, I agree. The emotion isn't always present in our vocals...there's yelling and then there's fake yelling, and many of the vocals use the latter.

 

What's wrong with a *slight* pre-baked echo in the vocals?

 

There's nothing inherently wrong with it, but the voices have to be consistent with each other. I actually wish that we had added a slight reverb to our vocals the way Thief did, but no one brought it up at the time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

would a Benny type voice fit..?

 

Well, not for this, no. The voice would have to sound pretty similar to the existing pro voice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, Goldchocobo did those ones. I think he did the pro and a friend of his did the others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the lines have to be done anew anyway, might we as well add missing lines - for situations that are not well covered of the current script? Like greetings, standard mumbling, discovering bodies/monsters etc? - I can't think of anything specific yet, but if the voice actor is there, he/she might as well read a sheet more at the same time.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the lines have to be done anew anyway, might we as well add missing lines - for situations that are not well covered of the current script? Like greetings, standard mumbling, discovering bodies/monsters etc?

 

What lines are missing? All the above are already covered (well, there are no greetings for monsters but AI don't greet monsters anyway).

 

How soon do you need them? I'm ordering the parts for my new desktop this week. If I get it up and running in a reasonable time frame, I would be happy to record them....and I'll actually get them done this time. lol

 

They won't be in 1.07, obviously, so there would be plenty of time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What lines are missing? All the above are already covered (well, there are no greetings for monsters but AI don't greet monsters anyway).

 

As I said, I don't know specifics, but in the past it often came up that we have certain situations not covered. Like "What's that, an arrow?" (they only say "weapon").

 

(Or "A beast, run for your lives" when they spot a monster.?)

 

There might be others, I don't know. All I said was that if we redo the lines, we have the chance to fix it now. Later it will be to late (because we won't redo the lines a third time).

 

So it might make sense to think about it as hard as possible now.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's nothing inherently wrong with it, but the voices have to be consistent with each other. I actually wish that we had added a slight reverb to our vocals the way Thief did, but no one brought it up at the time.

 

Applying reverb after the fact is a lot easier than getting rid of it, so if that's the only thing standing in the way of using the builder vocals, it could be done (assuming we have the source WAVs).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Applying reverb after the fact is a lot easier than getting rid of it, so if that's the only thing standing in the way of using the builder vocals, it could be done (assuming we have the source WAVs).

 

I'm not sure if we have all the source wavs for every vocal set or not...they'd be in the sound_src folder if so. If someone wants to go through and add a little reverb to them, I would be fine with that. IIRC the builder5 vocals had more than just a little reverb, however.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also agree with Tels that the dialogue could be expanded a little bit. In Thief 3, the AIs do have special greetings for monsters.

 

"Builder aid me gainst this spawn!"

"monsters!"

etc

 

Sooner or later somebody is gonna make an FM where guards and monsters collide, and it would be a little awkward to hear guards refer to undead as thieves.

--- War does not decide who is right, war decides who is left.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice! =)

 

Are dubbing artists so expensive by the way? I mean not the ones from the movies, but the little commercial ones. I don't have any idea how much this would cost for a few lines.

 

Or are there any famous game dubbers who did work for other mods like in Oblivion?

 

just an idea :)

"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For the sake of including the excellent new Builder, I am hesitant to bring up this point but...

 

If you add reverb to all the vocal sets, then any future audio technologies that might get added to Id Tech 4 or TDM will have to be limited to simulating environmental audio without including human vocals or (possibly) TDM will not be able to take advantage of any future audio simulation technologies because the baked reverb will not mix well with any simulation tech.

 

It's probably not a black and white case and you can probably mix the two if a good audio artist tunes the dynamic audio for the environments. It's a lot like mixing dynamic and baked lighting :laugh: ... it probably can be done here and there but it takes a special touch...

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice! =)

 

Are dubbing artists so expensive by the way? I mean not the ones from the movies, but the little commercial ones. I don't have any idea how much this would cost for a few lines.

 

Or are there any famous game dubbers who did work for other mods like in Oblivion?

 

just an idea :)

 

 

 

 

On a free project it isn't cheap, with a nice budget it won't break your bank.

 

Most of your decent, career VO actors pull in on average $100-$200 per finished recorded hour on long form productions. Some long form productions can pay as high as $400-$500 per finished recorded hour. A decent actor can record 30 minutes of audio in 1 real time hour. The good ones can get as high as 45-50 recorded minutes in a real time hour. For things like game characters or commercials it is typically a flat fee with a minimum. Most 15-30 second commercial skits typically pay a minimum of $150, but often average more like $200-$300 per skit if the product/company is notable. You can make even more if your the voice of a company for a year as you get paid every time a commercial runs when you're the vocal mascot.

 

 

**I'm a VO engineer/director by career.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On a free project it isn't cheap, with a nice budget it won't break your bank.

 

Most of your decent, career VO actors pull in on average $100-$200 per finished recorded hour on long form productions. Some long form productions can pay as high as $400-$500 per finished recorded hour. A decent actor can record 30 minutes of audio in 1 real time hour. The good ones can get as high as 45-50 recorded minutes in a real time hour. For things like game characters or commercials it is typically a flat fee with a minimum. Most 15-30 second commercial skits typically pay a minimum of $150, but often average more like $200-$300 per skit if the product/company is notable. You can make even more if your the voice of a company for a year as you get paid every time a commercial runs when you're the vocal mascot.

 

 

**I'm a VO engineer/director by career.

 

Hm, so what would a professional actor cost for one TDM voice? (I have no idea how much adio that actually is alltogether).

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also agree with Tels that the dialogue could be expanded a little bit. In Thief 3, the AIs do have special greetings for monsters.

 

"Builder aid me gainst this spawn!"

"monsters!"

etc

 

Sooner or later somebody is gonna make an FM where guards and monsters collide, and it would be a little awkward to hear guards refer to undead as thieves.

 

Coming from the thread about AI working together, things like:

 

* You stay here, I go check it out!

* You go search over there, I watch your back!

* Lets find him!

* We need to work together!

* Have you seen him?

* I'll find him, watch my back!

* Watch my back!

* I am not going first again!

* If you see something, yell!

* I'll piss on his corpse, you watch! (the annoyed guy :D

 

etc, would all be useful lines in that regard. (Not sure if we already have some of these)

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

Link to comment
Share on other sites

etc, would all be useful lines in that regard. (Not sure if we already have some of these)

 

Yes, we have several comments for AI searching together. Not sure they're actually used by the code though. There are still plenty of barks that were recorded that aren't actually used yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hm, so what would a professional actor cost for one TDM voice? (I have no idea how much adio that actually is alltogether).

 

I'm sure you could get a single character professionally voiced anywhere between $100-$250 depending on the talent. My general opinion of most VO talent that I personally know is that if it's a free/non profit project they are willing to go easy on price as long as there is no rush, they aren't being asked to do hours worth of recording, and they are able to get free studio time(or have their own decent home booth).

 

Most are pretty easy going people.

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, we have several comments for AI searching together. Not sure they're actually used by the code though. There are still plenty of barks that were recorded that aren't actually used yet.

 

I am just trying to convince you that if the artist does 3 lines, he might as well do 6, or 10, and greatly enhance the variety. It gets a bit repetitive if there are only 3 different lines for one (or even multiple) situations, and there are 4 AI - they are bound to repeat lines.

 

The seond argument I am trying to bring across is that if we redo them, we might throw in situations nilly-willy, just because in 2 years when we have code for them, we will need the audio, but the artist isn't able to deliver these lines anymore. It's not like with textures, where anyone can jump in and do a missing piece...

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sure you could get a single character professionally voiced anywhere between $100-$250 depending on the talent. My general opinion of most VO talent that I personally know is that if it's a free/non profit project they are willing to go easy on price as long as there is no rush, they aren't being asked to do hours worth of recording, and they are able to get free studio time(or have their own decent home booth).

 

Most are pretty easy going people.

 

If that quote is per/h, and we need only 1 or 2 hours worth it, we might be able to get that money together. I am sure I'd throw in quite a few € (and not the greek ones :P to bring that to fruit and donate the result to TDM.

 

Springheel, or any other, can you estimate how long a recording of one voice set is?

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recent Status Updates

    • Petike the Taffer

      I've finally managed to log in to The Dark Mod Wiki. I'm back in the saddle and before the holidays start in full, I'll be adding a few new FM articles and doing other updates. Written in Stone is already done.
      · 4 replies
    • nbohr1more

      TDM 15th Anniversary Contest is now active! Please declare your participation: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22413-the-dark-mod-15th-anniversary-contest-entry-thread/
       
      · 0 replies
    • JackFarmer

      @TheUnbeholden
      You cannot receive PMs. Could you please be so kind and check your mailbox if it is full (or maybe you switched off the function)?
      · 1 reply
    • OrbWeaver

      I like the new frob highlight but it would nice if it was less "flickery" while moving over objects (especially barred metal doors).
      · 4 replies
    • nbohr1more

      Please vote in the 15th Anniversary Contest Theme Poll
       
      · 0 replies
×
×
  • Create New...