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Let Sleeping Thieves Lie By Sir Taffsalot & Bikerdude (20/10/2011)


  

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  2. 2. Gameplay

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  3. 3. Story



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Let Sleeping Thieves Lie       A couple of days ago I was hired for an unusual job. I was asked to assasinate the leader of the Unseen thieves guild jack Blackthorn. People have been known to say he

Sorry. That was very assinine of me.

So far, so good, but I am stuck

 

in the church. I have the church key, but can't find a way to go forward, or even return to the city streets. Am I missing something obvious?

 

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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A question: why a "giant-sized" BSP scaling? :|

 

If you are talking about the brush sizes I have to agree. I felt like I was only 5 feet tall in most cases as balconies and windows and framing for stairs etc were all huge.

I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

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nbohr1more: I did not even find that location. Or, uh, I found the entrance, but no key. :blink:

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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Hmm...

 

 

I believe you will find what you need on the belt of a Guard... (at least it was that way in beta...)

 

Edited by nbohr1more

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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TDM really need some sort of autoloot body (forgot the proper name of this option in thief..). Sometimes you just didnt notice the key, throw the body on the other bodies in shadow and than you are just stuck for a loooong time.

He was sneeking silently in the night, moonlight was his enemy.

(Im not a native speaker, sorry for all miscleanous caused by my english..)

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Ah, right. Thanks. I could complete the mission this way. :)

 

My impressions (spoilered, although not very spoilery):

 

The mission was a pretty nice experience - although not problem-free. I can see elements of construction that are imaginative and colour schemes and light arrangements that work eminently. Some segments - like the sewers - are wonderful. If the mission suffers from something, it is that the cool stuff is stretched too thin. The mission is overscaled. We have rooms that are too large, street areas that are too large, a graveyard that is too large, and, granted, a church that is just right (it works very well as a looming presence).

 

This has some problematic consequences: because the mission is stretched too thin, rooms that would work with a few bits of furniture or objects feel empty. Details which would awe people are placed on fairly flat walls, and seem incongruent. Areas that would have tense patrols feel unchallenging (the church and the graveyard are completely vacant, which is a pity). And as my experience shows, objects on belts are hard to spot in TDM, so mission-critical stuff shoudl go elsewhere, if possible.

 

Let Sleeping Thieves Lie would be a very-very good mission - if it was more compressed. It would run better too, I bet (although I have no complaints on that front. I mean to say: this is a good FM. It has style. And it is a first effort. But it is badly scaled.

 

Edited by Melan

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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The scale of this mission was refreshing to me. I adds a different flavor.

 

I'm probably a bad judge here (again) because I like some of that zen feeling of exploring and contemplating these spaces as a form of entertainment in of itself. (Just like I enjoyed some of the aimless wandering in Winter Harvest.)

 

I agree, however, that more threats could have been placed.

 

Some of the lifeless areas should be left alone so that pacing is measured out appropriate to the mission progress. I was on edge expecting some action to show-up in areas that hinted it and that was a nice mood element as well even if the action never came.

 

I'm sure a brutally relentless "Sotha Style" version of this mission where patrols and moving light sources keep you moving and thinking at all times would be cool too... but I like this flavor for it's own sake.

 

(Ironically Biker, who has had more exploratory and less confrontational missions in the past, was a big motivator to increase the patrols and dynamics in this mission.).

 

Contrary to expectation, I was VERY happy to have such large spaces perform as well as they do.

 

With regard to the key:

 

 

The original location was even less likely than on a patrolling guard. I like giving players motivation to search guards for keys so the downside is worth it I'd say.

 

I will agree, however, that it would be even better if the key were on a guarded pedestal or in a locked box in a prominent room where it's importance is signaled to the player. A scripted "scare event" when you collect the key would also have been cool.

 

Edited by nbohr1more

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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I'm not very happy with the size of the mission myself either. I think I made a rookie mistake by making the buildings first and adding the AI after. As this is my first time making an FM I had no idea what size the buildings should be in relation to the AI and player. It was only when I started adding the AI that I realised I'd made the map too large. I read in Melans Fauchard Street speed building thread how he adds AI at the beginning of the building process to get a feel for the correct size of the architecture. I'll be doing that for the next one.

 

@ Nbohr - Feel free to tie this in with the Halloween contest as it does fit with the theme. However I feel I should say that the majority of this map was finished when the contest was started. Wouldn't that put me at a somehwhat unfair advantage?

Edited by Sir Taffsalot

"I believe that what doesn't kill you simply makes you... stranger"

 

The Joker

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If you are talking about the brush sizes I have to agree. I felt like I was only 5 feet tall in most cases as balconies and windows and framing for stairs etc were all huge.

Yes!

 

The mission is good, but lacks of claustrophobic feeling to be VERY good!

I feel like an ant in a giant world :D

Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

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Let Sleeping Thieves Lie would be a very-very good mission - if it was more compressed.

 

The irony is I have actually reduced the scale of the streets and in particular the cemetery (as that was just plain huge before). In the time I had I wasn't able to reduce the scale any more, becuase ti would have required loads more work. Lets just say if you had seen the mission before you would appreciate it more now.

 

It has all been a learning experience for SirTaff, his next mission wont have any of the aforementioned issues.

 

:-)

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Finished last night

 

and I too found it somewhat large and empty meaning I kept expecting more AI. At the beginning I had a little indecision as to which direction I was going to go first (almost went to the church) but after checking a few things out found the sewer and went there. I liked your sewer. I also liked the many different areas you had for loot possiblities. Your tombs with the haunts was tricky enough to search so added a nice touch of danger. I went up into the rafters first and when I found nothing wondered "what the" :huh: , but knew there must be a purpose so kept searching. One hint I'd give is to save before you throw as it's a long way down and back if you miss or drop it. All in all your mission flowed fairly well from place to place. When I finished I found I hadn't got all the loot so went back in, checked everywhere except sewers but couldn't get there because of mission end so had to go back to a previous save. Missed two rings on the table. It was long walk for two rings :P .

 

 

Thanks again for all your hard work. Look forward to your next mission.

Edited by Thiefette
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The irony is I have actually reduced the scale of the streets and in particular the cemetery (as that was just plain huge before). In the time I had I wasn't able to reduce the scale any more, becuase ti would have required loads more work. Lets just say if you had seen the mission before you would appreciate it more now.

 

It has all been a learning experience for SirTaff, his next mission wont have any of the aforementioned issues.

 

:-)

 

In that case very well done both of you, and yes adding an AI in the beginning really helps with scale. Looking forward to your next map :)

I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

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I need some hints on the more well-hidden bits of loot since the loot req is the only unfinished business I have left in the mission. I'm on expert and already have 3480 out of 3500. It drives me insane as I seriously can't think of any place I haven't already searched...

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oh hey, there's a console. Learn something every day! Thanks, I managed to find the remaining stuff with the command

(a couple tiny rings in the underground crypt that were totally invisible due to the near-complete darkness).

Edited by poronty
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i completely missed

the rings as well as 1 other thing

which was driving me nuts on difficult setting. also made the mistake of going

to the church before the sewer

. Other than the weird scale of the mission, i enjoyed the mission. great debut FM!

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Really nice mission. Story was a little bit weak (in relation to rest of this high quality little mission, of course), and the mission too linear and simple for my taste, but I liked a lot the way you have to explore a big area, without "anxiety" i can say as a free to ride mission world.

 

Visuals simply outstanding!

 

 

especially the church, a pleasure for my eyes

 

 

Thanks for this mission! :-)

 

The scale of this mission was refreshing to me. I adds a different flavor.

 

I'm probably a bad judge here (again) because I like some of that zen feeling of exploring and contemplating these spaces as a form of entertainment in of itself.

 

I agree.

Edited by Ladro
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I'm glad you enjoyed the FM. The large scale of the buildings wasn't intentional. Once I realised I had got the scale wrong most of the map had already been built.

 

Thanks to everyone who's played.

"I believe that what doesn't kill you simply makes you... stranger"

 

The Joker

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