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Revamped AI -- share your experiences


Springheel

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There have been a few comments already to the effect of, "AI are sharper now" and I know that there have been several improvements in the latest update. I personally would love to hear short little stories of how you've interacted with the new AI so far (this could include new 1.06 behaviour like noticing lights). Any surprises? Funny moments? Serious challenges?

 

I know I like hearing stuff like that, and I'm certain that the rest of the developers do too. :)

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Thanks for the useful comment. Nothing like posting to tell people you have nothing to post. :rolleyes:

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I havent yet explored as much as I wanted since the latest version came out, I'll just note a few things that stuck with me since the new moddifications (hopefully including good work done on the previous and current AI version):

 

- The enemies seem to be more thorough when alerted and looking for clues of suspicious noises - when I threw a bottle down the hall so I could distract two thugs playing cards (wanted to loot their bet money), they were quite persistent, opening doors, really investigating, just what you would expect in that situation, throwing another object to attract them back (so I could leave through the same hall), and this time their patience was gone and they came fully alert; in another occasion, I threw a bottle again to distract a thug, in one try he was mildly suspecious, curious enough to go out of the room he was in but not really alerted, that gave me time to go past him no problmes; in another try however I threw it too hard and the bottle was hitting all over the place and so the thug came out really stratled, sword in hand. I kept observing him, he eventually calmed down but kept looking, then he found the bottle (evidence) and took his sowrd out again, opening the door to the patio, where after a while he found a body I left there - this was unexpected as I knew no one else had a route that led to this patio, but the investigating AI wondered and found another evidence - to make it short, he immediatly came running past me, alerting everyone upstairs. I thought that insistance and his reaction to be spot on.

 

Overall, their hearing seem more challenging/sensitive, I used to get away with a lot of walking around right next to AI and now they all seem better at hearing me, making the stalking key more useful.

 

Their sight seem to have improved too, specially at noticing menacing items like the arrows - in fact, their alert level seems higher when hearing or seeing an arrow, they become quite agressive, as you would expect. I was also spotted in an area in Score to Settle that I looted quite confortably in my first run, they saw me from a good distance this time, not enough for a full alert, but enough to come investigate, which was cool (but it could also be that I got unlucky).

 

The combat animations are great and there's an added difficulty here as the right and overhead swing look more similar now, so you gotta read those movements more carefully. I still found an instance where a suspicious AI was walking around in a "weapon drawn" stance, but his sword was still on his belt. It hasnt happened in combat yet though, so thats good.

 

Oh, and I'm really liking the fact that you can hardly get away with all the commotion of fighting, as it seems a lot more likely somone will spot/hear it and come back with reinforcements! Im pretty sure I have seen at least two times some AI give up the search and go running after help, which is just what you would expect, first thing one would do if your in your hide out and people start dropping dead, would be to go look for help, the more consequences to your actions, the more challenge!

 

All in all it's hard to tell without a lot more testing (a detailed list of changes would be good too hehe), and I wasnt THAT familiar with the previous AI to begin with, but overall I'm quite happy with what I'm experiencing so far - to top it off, the changes seem to be all for the positive, without any step back as far as I could see, that's pretty good by itself.

Edited by RPGista
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Yeah, I think the rope behaviour is going to provide some tense moments.

 

I was playing Transaction, and had roped my way up to a window. Was waiting for a guard to pass by before opening it, since I was in a shadow. But then around the corner came a guard with a torch. He spotted the rope and said, "Hey...that's not right..." Then he walked over slowly, looked up, and shouted, "AHA! I've got you now!"

 

It felt like an incredibly legitimate way to get busted, but something I'd never have to worry about in any other stealth game.

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I was testing my WIP yesterday. Climbed a rope arrow to get at something, and when I came back to the arrow, I looked down and a guard was staring up at me. Quite a shock.

 

LOL thanks for sharing this! ^_^

My Eigenvalue is bigger than your Eigenvalue.

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The combat animations are great and there's an added difficulty here as the right and overhead swing look more similar now, so you gotta read those movements more carefully. I still found an instance where a suspicious AI was walking around in a "weapon drawn" stance, but his sword was still on his belt. It hasnt happened in combat yet though, so thats good.

 

This is a bit off topic, but we kind of want the attack animations to be easy to distinguish, if you're watching for them. You only have a fraction of a second to read the back-swing and see which direction they're attacking from, so it should be clearly distinguishable from the animation. The difficulty in combat should (and does) come from other sources.

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I find combat to be pretty easy, since enemies just stand in front of you hacking and slashing rather without seeking the best angle to attack you by swiftlly moving around. Combat animations could also be better. Characters only move their torso while attacking which does look a bit silly sometimes; good animators are hard to get though, so I'd say you guys have done a pretty good job on your own so far. I do however believe we need a new lighter blade weapon other than the short sword. Perhaps a dagger or a cinquedea that could be used only for stabbing if wielded alone, but could also be used together with a short sword as a left hand parrying weapon.

Edited by zergrush
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I too find myself thinking about ways of making the Thief more lethal from time to time. Branding of fallen or found weapons (with different stats than the default short sword), or throwing of objects that do damage (like rocks to KO guards, or daggers to injure them). But I think the thing here is not to make the character another Assassin's Creed, with his arrows and short sword alone he's pretty lethal right now and fights are supposed to be something to avoid in this game (they do ruin your stealth stats, if anything). The stabbing you mentioned can actually be done with the sword and some sneaking - it will kill most of the time, and there's the added feature of being able to aim the direction of the blow according to openings on the guard's armor, which I find to be really cool (you can thrust or hack an unprotected guy, or charge a lateral swing to hit the neck of someone using plates and a helm). Its cool to try to assassinate them and if you miss and hit the shoulder or something, fight it out.

 

The animations have to be like that (only upper torso movements), because the legs are different entities and need to be free so the guards can move them independently. There were requests of animated attack moves before (including by me hehe, things like stepping up and thrust, or powerful leaping overhead blow), not necessarily for aesthetic reasons but mostly for creating a more varied experience, giving the player a chance to strafe and counter an unablanced attacker, for example. But those would have to be agreed upon, balanced inside the existing system, and animated. As for the overhead animation issue, it might have been my impression only. It is certainly different from the original, but I wouldnt actually say misleading, maybe I was just too used to the previous one and am getting fooled by the differences.

Edited by RPGista
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  • 4 weeks later...

The AI are not to be taken lightly. I found myself trying strategies such as hoping on wooden floors to attract guards away from patrols and they instantly drew blades and then not ten seconds later spotted and hunted me down. The AI are VERY persistent. Searching for sometime ten to twenty minutes depending on how close I am to them and if im still trying to move. AI once fully alert never put their weapons away and are on constant edge. Frustrating seeing as I cant blackjack them anymore like in TG. AI still have trouble reacting to doors opening for no reason in front of them and torches going out, but on some maps ive seen them react better then on others. So its probrably a map to map thing. AI with bows seem to take long pauses between shots. I dont know if this is to give me a break or if its just faulty. But archers are pretty easy to kill once ive dodged the initial barrage, close the gap, then hack them down while they idly stand. But for the most part AI react as any normal guards in medieval setting would.

The only limits your imagination has are the ones you set.

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Frustrating seeing as I cant blackjack them anymore like in TG.

 

Guards with helmets become immune to KOs when their swords are out. Guards without helmets can still be KO'd, but only from behind.

 

AI still have trouble reacting to doors opening for no reason in front of them and torches going out, but on some maps ive seen them react better then on others. So its probrably a map to map thing.

 

It's up to mappers to set doors and lights as suspicious. Earlier maps won't have this set as the feature was not available then.

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Ah! I see now. Guards with helmets of course! It took me time to see all the little details. Like when I kill a hammer haunt and walk over his corpse theres a distinct metal clack of his breast plate.

The only limits your imagination has are the ones you set.

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Ah! I see now. Guards with helmets of course!

 

Something else not done in previous games (along with armour-based damage). :P

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I was playing Let Sleeping Thieves lie last week and rope arrowed up to a window. Suddenly, a citywatch came around the corner and spotted my rope. "That's not right..." he said and started walking over. Normally I would have been safe there, since I was too high for him to see me above his helmet, but I knew he'd look up once he got close enough to the rope. I was forced to dive into the lit room without being able to check whether or not anyone was in there, and quickly grabbed my rope. The watch stood around for a few minutes, perplexed, and then went on his way.

 

Thanks to 1.07, a normally routine move became a tense and memorable moment! :)

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Hehe. Guys, I noticed something rather peculiar just now, "playing" through the Builder warehouse in the training mission.

 

I don't exactly know what happened, but I think one of the builders accidentally hit another builder and the two of them got into a ridiculous fight which, of course, ended in one of them getting killed. :laugh:

I'm just sitting there in the shadows chuckling at how these two just tore into eachother like wild animals!

 

This is definiely something I've never seen before! :D

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In House of Theo - making a noise I fled up a ladder --- a guard was waiting for me at the bottom looking up.

 

Is looking up ladders new behaviour? I never noticed it before!

"No proposition Euclid wrote,

No formulae the text-books know,

Will turn the bullet from your coat,

Or ward the tulwar's downward blow

Strike hard who cares—shoot straight who can—

The odds are on the cheaper man."

 

From 'Arithmetic on the Frontier' by Rudyard Kipling

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Recently I was playing Let Sleeping Thieves Lie in 1.07. I climbed to balcony with rope arrow. When I was gonna climb down, one of the guards that patrols on the street realized the rope and got suspected. I trapped in the balcony. Then I jumped to tree for an alternative escape and go down but it was very bad idea. They heard my footsteps and started to stare at me. I barely hide in brushes and started to beg for my life :)

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