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func_forcefield + water + movable object = WTF?!

LordSavage

By LordSavage
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LordSavage

LordSavage

Posted
Posted

I set up a forcefield in a water brush/entity to emulate a river. The uniform vector is 90 0 0 and it works (not too good but ok) for many objects but there are other forcefields in the water with a vector of 180 0 0 (to emulate a faster river under a narrow bridge) and objects in this "fly" away like in an explosion. I read somewhere that this is a somewhat known bug but is there any workaround or fix I can use for my map?

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grayman

grayman

Posted
Posted

I can't find a bugtracker entry for this.

 

I looked at the forcefield code and didn't see anything obviously wrong. There is a random amount of torque applied, probably to make the object spin, but this should only apply to angular velocity, not translation velocity.

 

If you could please enter this in bugtracker, possibly with a sample map, that would help get it fixed.

 

In the meantime, if there's a specific moveable that gets dropped into the water, you could lower its mass to see if that helps.

 

Thanks.

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LordSavage

LordSavage

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Here is an example map. Look how things speed up in water! And now imagine this in a long river and objects dropped from a few meters above the water.

 

Edit: Can't attach .map files.

 

Here you go:

Version 2
// entity 0
{
"classname" "worldspawn"
"editor_drLastCameraPos" "-169.396 -163.181 149.664"
"editor_drLastCameraAngle" "-46.7999 113.4 0"
// primitive 0
{
brushDef3
{
( 0 0 1 0 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0078125 2 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 0 1 0 -64 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 254 ) ( 0 0.0078125 15.9375 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 1 0 0 192 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0078125 15.9375 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 0 0 -1 -128 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0078125 13.9375 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 0 -1 0 -64 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 2 ) ( 0 0.0078125 15.9375 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( -1 0 0 -320 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0078125 15.9375 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
}
}
// primitive 1
{
brushDef3
{
( 0 0 1 -200 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 0 1 0 -64 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 1 0 0 -320 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0.0625 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 0 -1 0 -288 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0.0625 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( -1 0 0 -320 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 13.75 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0.0625 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 0 0 -1 192 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
}
}
// primitive 2
{
brushDef3
{
( 0 0 1 -192 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 15.9375 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 0 1 0 -72 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0078125 15.9375 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 1 0 0 -320 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 15.9375 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 0 0 -1 -128 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 15.9375 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( -1 0 0 -320 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 13.8125 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 0 -1 0 64 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0078125 15.9375 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
}
}
// primitive 3
{
brushDef3
{
( 0 0 1 -192 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0078125 15.9375 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 0 1 0 -64 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0.0625 ) ( 0 0.0078125 15.9375 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 1 0 0 -328 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 0 0 -1 -128 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0.0625 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 0 -1 0 -288 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 15.9375 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( -1 0 0 320 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
}
}
// primitive 4
{
brushDef3
{
( 0 1 0 -64 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0078125 15.875 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 1 0 0 -320 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0078125 15.9375 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 0 0 -1 -136 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 0 -1 0 -288 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0078125 15.9375 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( -1 0 0 -320 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 13.75 ) ( 0 0.0078125 15.9375 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 0 0 1 128 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
}
}
// primitive 5
{
brushDef3
{
( 0 0 1 -192 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0.0625 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 1 0 0 -320 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0.0625 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 0 0 -1 -128 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0.0625 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 0 -1 0 -296 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( -1 0 0 -320 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 13.6875 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 0 1 0 288 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
}
}
// primitive 6
{
brushDef3
{
( 0 0 1 -192 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0.0625 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 0 1 0 -64 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 15.9375 ) ( 0 0.0078125 15.9375 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 0 0 -1 -128 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0078125 15.9375 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 0 -1 0 -288 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 0.0625 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( -1 0 0 -328 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 13.75 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
( 1 0 0 320 ) ( ( 0.0078125 0 13.75 ) ( 0 0.0078125 0 ) ) "textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/blocks_mixedsize02_multicolour" 0 0 0
}
}
}
// entity 1
{
"classname" "info_player_start"
"name" "info_player_start_1"
"origin" "-256 0 0"
"angle" "-89.999992370605469"
}
// entity 2
{
"classname" "func_forcefield"
"name" "func_forcefield_1"
"model" "func_forcefield_1"
"origin" "0 -112 -72"
"applyImpulse" "1"
"start_on" "1"
"uniform" "180 0 0"
// primitive 0
{
brushDef3
{
( 0 0 1 -56 ) ( ( 0.03125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.03125 0 ) ) "textures/common/caulk" 0 0 0
( 0 1 0 -176 ) ( ( 0.03125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.03125 0 ) ) "textures/common/caulk" 0 0 0
( 1 0 0 -320 ) ( ( 0.03125 0 0.75 ) ( 0 0.03125 0 ) ) "textures/common/caulk" 0 0 0
( 0 0 -1 -56 ) ( ( 0.03125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.03125 0 ) ) "textures/common/caulk" 0 0 0
( 0 -1 0 -176 ) ( ( 0.03125 0 0 ) ( 0 0.03125 0 ) ) "textures/common/caulk" 0 0 0
( -1 0 0 -320 ) ( ( 0.03125 0 63.75 ) ( 0 0.03125 0 ) ) "textures/common/caulk" 0 0 0
}
}
}
// entity 3
{
"classname" "atdm:liquid_water_murky"
"name" "atdm_liquid_water_murky_1"
"model" "atdm_liquid_water_murky_1"
"origin" "0 -112 -72"
"underwater_gui" "guis\underwater\underwater_green_thinmurk.gui"
// primitive 0
{
brushDef3
{
( 0 0 1 -56 ) ( ( -0.007812499534338713 -6.829903864691289e-10 255.75 ) ( 6.829903864691289e-10 -0.007812499534338713 2.185569414336896e-08 ) ) "textures/water_source/water_stream" 0 0 0
( 0 1 0 -176 ) ( ( 0.0625 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0625 0 ) ) "textures/common/nodraw" 0 0 0
( 1 0 0 -320 ) ( ( 0.0625 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0625 0 ) ) "textures/common/nodraw" 0 0 0
( 0 0 -1 -56 ) ( ( 0.0625 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0625 0 ) ) "textures/common/nodraw" 0 0 0
( 0 -1 0 -176 ) ( ( 0.0625 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0625 0 ) ) "textures/common/nodraw" 0 0 0
( -1 0 0 -320 ) ( ( 0.0625 0 0 ) ( 0 0.0625 0 ) ) "textures/common/nodraw" 0 0 0
}
}
}
// entity 4
{
"classname" "light"
"name" "light_1"
"origin" "0 -112 32"
"light_center" "0 0 0"
"light_radius" "328 184 168"
"texture" "lights/ambientlightnfo"
"_color" "0.20 0.20 0.20"
"nodiffuse" "0"
"noshadows" "0"
"nospecular" "0"
"parallel" "0"
}
// entity 5
{
"classname" "atdm:moveable_bucket_wood"
"name" "atdm_moveable_bucket_wood_1"
"origin" "-216 -32 8"
}
// entity 6
{
"classname" "atdm:moveable_bucket_wood"
"name" "atdm_moveable_bucket_wood_3"
"origin" "-216 -8 8"
}
// entity 7
{
"classname" "atdm:moveable_bucket_wood"
"name" "atdm_moveable_bucket_wood_4"
"origin" "-216 -56 8"
}
// entity 8
{
"classname" "atdm:moveable_bucket_wood"
"name" "atdm_moveable_bucket_wood_5"
"origin" "-240 -56 8"
}
// entity 9
{
"classname" "atdm:moveable_bucket_wood"
"name" "atdm_moveable_bucket_wood_6"
"origin" "-264 -56 8"
}

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Mortem Desino

Mortem Desino

Posted
Posted

If it's a uniform vector forcefield, the magnitude of the force is equal to the length of the vector. In "The Creeps", I set a very short length (0 2 -1) to push some moveables south and slightly up to mimic wind blowing. '90 0 0' and '180 0 0' seem really big for what you're doing. Divide that by ten, start with '9 0 0' and '18 0 0'.

 

Other than that, it looks set up correctly. I hope this isn't a side-effect of water physics. Sometimes, impulses had gone all wonky in water, but I thought Ishtvan and I fixed that a while ago.

yay seuss crease touss dome in ouss nose tair

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Mortem Desino

Mortem Desino

Posted
Posted

Found a spawnarg in the code: "playerOnly" "0/1". Something worth your experimenting with?

 

I'm still a bit baffled in the handling of the player in a forcefield. It pushes the player with the same magnitude impulse whether in water or falling down in the air (not standing on ground).

 

 

Edit: Oh, I think I see what's happening. Because moveables get a mass multiplier in water (to make them bouyant), that may be why the forcefield impulse is so violent only on the buckets.

Edit2: Oh wait, no. Because the buckets still get kicked around violently by the forcefield even without the water. This may be a bug with the handling of the player, not moveables.

yay seuss crease touss dome in ouss nose tair

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nbohr1more

nbohr1more

Posted
Posted

Now that the Source code is out, anything can be fixed (presuming "the staff" have the needed skillset). That said, physics code is pretty difficult...

AFAIK, Grayman, Ishtvan, Greebo and Angua have all fixed physics issues via SDK so now with the full sources they should have more resources to fix stuff?

 

I would make a test map and open a Bug tracker ticket and see what happens ;)

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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grayman

grayman

Posted
Posted

The forcefield applies the same force to any object.

 

The mass of the object factors into how that force translates into velocity.

 

Heavier objects receive less velocity than lighter objects.

 

So the player floats nicely along while the buckets fly.

 

Since a forcefield has been used in at least 5 FMs to date, I don't want to change the physics of it.

 

So here's a workaround:

 

Set up two forcefields, same size, same origin.

 

Give one these spawnargs:

 

"uniform" "171 0 0"

"playerOnly" "1"

 

Give the other this spawnarg:

 

"uniform" "9 0 0"

 

The two forces will be additive on the player, giving you the equivalent of "180 0 0".

 

The bucket is only affected by the "9 0 0" force, which makes it float along nicely. If it's still going too fast for you, then adjust "9 0 0" downward and compensate in the other forcefield by adjusting "171 0 0" upward.

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LordSavage

LordSavage

Posted
  • Author
Posted

The forcefield applies the same force to any object.

 

The mass of the object factors into how that force translates into velocity.

 

Heavier objects receive less velocity than lighter objects.

 

So the player floats nicely along while the buckets fly.

 

Since a forcefield has been used in at least 5 FMs to date, I don't want to change the physics of it.

 

So here's a workaround:

 

Set up two forcefields, same size, same origin.

 

Give one these spawnargs:

 

"uniform" "171 0 0"

"playerOnly" "1"

 

Give the other this spawnarg:

 

"uniform" "9 0 0"

 

The two forces will be additive on the player, giving you the equivalent of "180 0 0".

 

The bucket is only affected by the "9 0 0" force, which makes it float along nicely. If it's still going too fast for you, then adjust "9 0 0" downward and compensate in the other forcefield by adjusting "171 0 0" upward.

 

That did it for the buckets but the barrel (atdm:moveable_barrell_med) is super slow now. Much too slow to be realistic. :/

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grayman

grayman

Posted
Posted

That did it for the buckets but the barrel (atdm:moveable_barrell_med) is super slow now. Much too slow to be realistic. :/

 

Sounds like we need a sliding fudge factor applied to things in a forcefield. (A force of 180 is good for a mass of 70 (player), a force of 9 is good for a mass of 4.75 (bucket), and a force of N is good for a mass of 45 (med barrel). )

 

Could you adjust the force and tell me what N is for a med barrel? I'm guessing it's around 90.

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rebb

rebb

Posted
Posted

90 is exactly what I used for the river where the barrel is in my map :D.

 

For better understanding:

forcefield.jpg

 

What happens if an object is touching multiple of these areas at the same time, for example a "180 0 0" and a "90 0 0" volume - does that get handled properly or does it add all the forces together flat ?

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grayman

grayman

Posted
Posted

What happens if an object is touching multiple of these areas at the same time, for example a "180 0 0" and a "90 0 0" volume - does that get handled properly or does it add all the forces together flat ?

 

Each field acts independently on the object, so the results are additive. In your example, the effect of the two fields would be the same as a single field with a push of "270 0 0".

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