[Resolved in TDM 2.06] implementing 3d skyboxes that follow the player

[Baddcog]

Well, I actually didn't notice the stacked box the first time I watched the video.

 

The problem I am having with it is obviously AMD CCC. The control center in the newer versions doesn't allow Catalyst AI to be turned completely off, and that does weird things to the skybox. Basically it inverts it. And it also moves it weird.

I wasn't getting this awhile back because I had an older version installed and you could uncheck it. And I haven't played TDM much lately so I hadn't noticed it being screwed up, I loaded up your map and it was screwed up, but as I said above I tested it in TDM and the moon and sky are wacky there too.

 

Looking back now at the video I see that the top box does indeed work as it should. So the main thing really is for use to get the renamed shortcut fix working so we don't have these driver issues.

 

I'll probably test that this weekend, but I think I need to get on the new SVN server...

 

Sorry if you feel like I am giving you a hard time, I've just wanted this working for a long time, and I guess I didn't really understand some of what you were saying before, then I ran into the driver issues (that I thought I had fixed before reinstall OS).

 

Anyway, I look forward to it being implemented and I don't see why we wouldn't or shouldn't. Would be a great improvement.

[7318]

great!

[Sotha]

I wonder if this would fix the occasional "skybox winks out of existence while mantling" -issue...

[Mortem Desino]

I wonder if this would fix the occasional "skybox winks out of existence while mantling" -issue...

That's a slightly different problem. I believe that happens when the player origin clips into geometry in the middle of mantling onto something.

 

I love this skybox functionality. This is a favorite technique amongst HL2 mappers, because they can create huge backdrop landscapes and vistas for relatively cheap performance.

[7318]

great to hear that

[Komag]

rope swinging is another thing I thought of, and also riding movables

[jaxa]

rope swinging is another thing I thought of, and also riding movables

 

Well you did make "Swing" after all.

[greebo]

I think this is a great addition and has lots of potential.

 

Without having to looked at the code (only watched the video so far), is this creating any conflicts with legacy portal skies? Or is this completely optional, so mappers are free to use it, or just use the old-style sky portal?

 

I'm happy to merge this into TDM's codebase, this really sounds like something useful, provided it doesn't break existing maps.

[Bikerdude]

I love this skybox functionality. This is a favorite technique amongst HL2 mappers, because they can create huge backdrop landscapes and vistas for relatively cheap performance.

I'm still not upto speed on this, could someone do me a basic map so I can viually whats happening etc..?

[Baddcog]

I could make one, but can't test it do to driver issues atm

 

basically at the start of that video you see two blocks stacked on top of each other. The bottom one is in the player area, the top one is in the skybox, it will always be rendered behind player area geo. That's the most important part to us. (You can have a huge clocktower that can be seen from everywhere in the map with no visportal issues)

 

But the skybox switch could also be very cool. Say the player crawls into a cave, you could change from the nighttime stars skybox to an enormous cave ceiling

 

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Here's a shot of a map I made in Hammer that uses a skybox.

 

The play area is a box (table top), the room around it is a skybox, the smoke on the cigarette is a smoke particle for a smoke stack which is in the skybox, but it alignbs to the cigareete which is in the play area.. The window is in the skybox.

[Bikerdude]

Ah I sorta get the idea, we could have a massive city background, or a forest background, or mountains etc. Im think about my own maps that could use a skybox upgrade.

 

Does this mean that theses "new" skyboxes wouldnt have as much parallax as the current one's do..?

 

@BC, re your driver issue, I assuem your running a newish Ati card and driver - have you created a game profile and modifyed it for Doom..?

[Baddcog]

Yeah, I'm running the new Catalyst control with the slider for catalyst ai. I'm thinking about just rolling it back for awhile. The new thedarkmod.exe is supposed to take care of that, but that's 1.08, not enough HD room to combine my SVN and play folders... (I like em seperate anyway)

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Yeah the skybox can basically be anything. It can be aligned with the playworld (ie: have a caulk wall to limit the player, but have a skybox building there, so the player thinks he is bumping against bricks- But player lantern can break that illusion). Or it can be just a backdrop.

 

Or you can have 2 stories of a building in play area, and 3 stories above that in the skybox.(while still having the inside of the building hollow for the player to explore).

 

One major caveat is getting lighting smooth across junctions like that. But you could put a horizontal trim around the seam to mask any weird lighting. Not too hard to work around this.

 

We also don't have scale models (yet). So it would be great for skylines, brush patch work. But if you want a visible street with lamp posts you'd either need to make them with patches and brushes, or a scale a model down (which I guess we can already do, it just screws with the collision right? And we don't need the collision...)

 

Keep in mind though, someone needs to roll this into TDM. As is the head bob script in TDM makes the skybox bob, which kills the illusion. His work changes that so the skybox doesn't bob.

Also, these inverted sky issues with ATI right now would invert all the buildings and everything too. So until we get that .exe released with 1.08 anyone with newer catalyst crap wouldn't like it much at all.

[Bikerdude]

Yeah, I'm running the new Catalyst control with the slider for catalyst ai. I'm thinking about just rolling it back for awhile. The new thedarkmod.exe is supposed to take care of that, but that's 1.08, not enough HD room to combine my SVN and play folders... (I like em seperate anyway)

 

Keep in mind though, someone needs to roll this into TDM. As is the head bob script in TDM makes the skybox bob, which kills the illusion. His work changes that so the skybox doesn't bob.

Also, these inverted sky issues with ATI right now would invert all the buildings and everything too. So until we get that .exe released with 1.08 anyone with newer catalyst crap wouldn't like it much at all.

 

Ooh I like the idea we wont have to keep chasing AMD to fix this, I and others will be free to upgrade to Ati is the price/Perf is right. (am waiting for the price of the GTX580/HD7950 to drop to less rediculous amounts, say around £250)

 

Hmm I think I will wait for 1.08 then me thinks.

[7318]

hey I got a testmap in the mod. you can test it. open my mod (open doom, select my mod from the list, open this mod) and type "testmap skies" in the console

[Bikerdude]

hey I got a testmap in the mod. you can test it. open my mod (open doom, select my mod from the list, open this mod) and type "testmap skies" in the console

yeah Im gonna have a play with that tomoz.

[Tels]

Ok, so how do we move forward from this?

[nbohr1more]

When I get home I'll test the download link (MediaFire is usually temporary) (source was included) but the last word on this was Greebo's concern about breaking existing skyboxes.

 

Someone will need to merge the code locally and test... as the author didn't specify how this would affect existing portal skies.

 

If the download links don't work I'll update the thread over at Doom3world.

Edited February 26, 2012 by nbohr1more

[Baddcog]

Well it would suck to not use this because a few maps might break, I doubt they will. As far as I know only Sotha has placed small buildings in a 'skybox' so far.

 

And I imagine it bobs, but they are so small and far away it's not noticeable.

 

With this we can have REAL skyboxes, We could have some amazing vistas, but as it is we have bobbing buildings and I'd rather have shitty/no vistas than bob buildings.

[nbohr1more]

The download link still works (phew)

 

The source code is inside the archive.

 

I'll be posting a dropbox link shortly.

 

Edit:

 

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17706561/portalsky1.1.7z

 

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17706561/portalsky1.1.7z

Edited February 27, 2012 by nbohr1more

[Tels]

It would be good if the original submitter could integrate this directly into our SVN code.

[Sotha]

Well it would suck to not use this because a few maps might break, I doubt they will. As far as I know only Sotha has placed small buildings in a 'skybox' so far.

 

I agree that Real skyboxes are a benefit we cannot miss.

 

Can't we have the old skybox camera and then the New And Improved Skybox Camera separately? Changing the skybox directly would risk breaking KM, Mandrasola and Transaction skies. I've no longer enough time to fix them all if they are broken in a single update. I have barely enough free time to work on my WIP. :.(

 

Surely actual map breakage can be avoided with an intelligent approach?

[Serpentine]

I can do the merge if needed. Just let me know.

[nbohr1more]

Cough?

 

[7318]

implementing it to the engine is only a two line code change, because this is mainly a *.dll / *.os change, the change in the engine allows you to have a more organized material for portalskies instead of the strange material for them you have a new "portalsky material" at "editor/portalsky" much more cleaner an easier to understand.

 

there shouldn't be any map break because i haven't changed anything from the original portalsky code from d3xp

 

go ahead add it to TDM

[Sotha]

*Sotha reads a scroll of Thread Necromancy!*

 

Let's continue the 3d skybox business here and leave the DR newbie thread in peace. Last relevant posts are behind this link:

http://forums.thedar...post__p__306495

 

Here is the 3d skybox test map I made.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/zijx96

 

I've not done these properly before so hopefully I got it right. The skybox should be 1/16 of the real size. I took an AI height, which is ~75 units. I built a mockup toy man in 1/16 scale (height ~5 units) and built a few houses (height 12 units) in the toy man's proportions. The skybox was littered with these. The player starts with the real AI, the toy man and the toy houses in view. The red brick building behind these, is a real house built into the same proportions as the houses in the skybox. See image, easier to explain:

 

 

Stuff in the background are skybox things. Stuff in the foreground are real. Real sizes in DR units are shown for easy identification.

 

As one might observe in a casual test moving around this map, it is *very* difficult to gauge whether the stuff in the skybox is right or not because the skybox camera does not move with the player.

 

Extra note: There are two moons in this map. The other is fixed in the cubemap background and the other (smaller one) is a real object in the 3d-skybox. I put it in because many mappers use object moons in their skybox. With moving skybox camera, the moon may move unrealistically. With this map that can be examined as well.

 

But this should be useful for testing the changes altogether: when the items in the background are moving with the player, something should be about right.