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T3 Editor Is Released!


Subjective Effect
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It's a great day for all of us who have wanted and waited for this. It is out and ready for DL right now.

 

But I want to be the first to say keep up with the mission. TDM will still be great guys, and we still want it. Site redesign is at an inopportune moment (perhaps) but don't let the fevour surrounding T3Ed drown out your dreams.

 

Subjective Effect

I want your brain... to make his heart... beat faster.

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Oh my god, they did it? That is really good news for Thief fans! Woot.

 

"What? Why would a TDM member say that?"

 

Contrary to popular belief, we don't all hate T3, and we're not all anti-T3Ed. :) I've been looking forward to a release for what seems like forever. I want both T3Ed -and- TDM to succeed. More Thief = good. I suspect both will have their strengths and weaknesses and individual merits, sure to keep fans happily taffing about for years to come.

 

This is a good day - hopefully one of many yet to come - for Thief fans!

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Guest The Nay-Sayer

Now that the TDS editor has been released I was wondering what are your plans?

 

The editor is still downloading for me so I don't know all of the features but if it's possible to vastly alter TDS then wouldn't you prefer to make a TDS mod instead of this? Then you can use all of the Thief licenses without fear and because your team is so great you could create a great custom campaign...

 

Anyway... just interested.

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Personally I'm not really interested in making a Thief campaign. So if the team decides to switch to T3Ed then it's their choice. Currently I can't see this happening though. Our primary goal was not to create a campaign anyway, so that has not changed that much, even though we focus on a campaign already for other reasons.

I prefer to make a game of my own instead of just creating maps and therefore I don't really care that much for the Thief licence. Especially as it is limited anyway. TDM is our own world, which is inspired by the Thief universe but not a verbatim copy of it, so we have any freedom with it and are not dependent on any licence.

 

And it still has to remain to be seen how much freedom the T3 editor allows. With D3 we know our limitations already, which are pretty slim. Which means that it makes more sense to wait a little until we really know what can and what can not be done with it. But that will take a few weeks at the least, IMO.

Edited by sparhawk

Gerhard

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There's a good chance we'll have maps produced for this game before any serious missions have been made for T3ed anyway. A year would be a good bet before we see any real custom campaigns coming out of the T3ed and not just rearranged TDS levels - that's a dev saying that, not me.

A year from now we'll be well into making our campaign, and the editor and inital missions will hopefully have been released already.

Hey, after the inital shock of the editor suddenly being thrown at us, even I'm happy for all the 100s of taffers who wanted it, it'll keep them busy and interested in THief until we're ready :/

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

character models site

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I checked your postings and they are rather old. This implies to me that you either don't want or don't have enough time to work for TDM. Given your postings on certain matters I have to assume that it's lacking motivation which is no problem, but you must understand that we want to progress TDM.

Gerhard

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Im realy glad to here you are continuing TDM. This mod is built on a vastly superior engine (imho) the unreal 2.x engine is good but not a patch on doom3. That you have a full sdk to work with, and the tools to add more to the mod to allow for truly inovative and original gamplay to this thief like setting is great.

 

While I am happy the tds editor has been realsed I am still looking forward whole heartedly to the Dark Mod.

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My opinion (though I'm sure it counts for little like most opinions) is that the release of the Deadly Shadows editor actually helps TDM. Why? well...

 

Here's a quote from Krypt at the TTLG forums:

 

...we fully intended to have water in both DX:IW and T-DS in the initial designs. I suppose maybe someone will get mad at me for saying this, but we had a LOT of problems with implementing the Havok physics in our engine. There were a lot of things we just couldn't get working to our satisfaction and still keep up with our development schedule, and water was one of the big ones. We cut water because of the amount of development time it would have required for the physics programming and all of the art effects and extra animations and such. We decided the amount of time and resources it would take to put water in wasn't worth the gameplay benefit. Rope arrows were also intended to be in T-DS, but were cut because of the problems with implementing them. I wasn't on the Thief team yet when rope arrows were cut so I don't know the details, but I believe it was pretty much entirely for technical/schedule reasons.

 

I think it's apparent that no matter how great the future TDS FM's will be (and based on community precident, they will be great), the gameplay elements that were removed from TDS will be impossible to implement even WITH the SDK.

 

Alot of people held high hopes for the TDS SDK not only for the ability to make brand new missions with the brand new engine, but primarily to re-implement gameplay dynamics (and some would call staples) of the Thief seiries that most believed the programmers were unable to fully realize due to time constraints, but that the elements themselves were still in fact latent in the editor itself. I think, even now with this new information, there are pioneering modders who are trying deperately to make a rope arrow or swim around.

 

Unfortunately, water and rope arrows simply weren't programmed in at all.

 

My point is that even if TDM is half as good as it appears it will be, it will feel more like Thief than it's Official sequel (TDS). People didn't moan and groan about no water and no rope arrows just because they wanted options, but because they wanted more of what they had come to expect...look how aggrevated fans of the Fallout series became when thier beloved RPG became a RTS sim.

 

No matter how large the levels become, or how high-res you make the texures, it'll still be TDS.

 

Once people start realising that they'll never have rope arrows and water and leaning forward etc, I think the community will be ready to try anything resembling a true Thief experience. Right now, TDM is our best bet.

 

I think some of the TTLG crew bite at TDM because they care so much for the original programmers and creators of the "Official" thief sequel. Seems to me there'd be alittle trepidation at the thought a mod made by a bunch of guys on a game forum with no monetary incentive could make a better all around experience for free than a huge group of paid, established developers, many of which worked on previous iterations of the game, and force us to shell out $50 to play it.

 

Just a thought. Or two.

 

Hylix.

Edited by Hylix Ulyx
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I think some of the TTLG crew bite at TDM because they care so much for the original programmers and creators of the "Official" thief sequel. Seems to me there'd be alittle trepidation at the thought a mod made by a bunch of guys on a game forum with no monetary incentive could make a better all around experience for free than a huge group of paid, established developers, many of which worked on previous iterations of the game, and force us to shell out $50 to play it.

I can understand that to some extent, but at the same time I'm quite pissed off about this also. I'm a full time developer and doing this for a living. So when I code in my free time I do exactly the same what I do when I'm at work. So this is just ridicoulous to assume that just because you are not a payed member of a game company, that you can't be better. Before I started to become a professional developer, I was already coding for more than 10 years as a hobby. At the beginning I had the same attitude. I thought that I could never be a real programmer because I was doing this just for a hobby and "real programmers" are getting paid for it and they learned this all properly in a school or somehwere at university while I learend most of the stuff at home just because I was curious at how certain things worked. When I started to get emplyed for the first time, I soon realized that I was wrong. Quite on the contrary I saw that I could do much more because I did this out of love for the thing and not just because I get paid for it, so I was now basically doing still my hobby AND got paid for it. :)

 

And there is one other thing to consider: All the devs who work for game companies were not born as a game developer. They had to learn it just like everybody else. And that is one thing I really appreciate with Id. They never forgot where they came from and where THEIR (literally) base is. :)

Gerhard

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I'm not saying I agree with the sentiment, nor am I downplaying or underestimating any of TDM's prowess as professionals.

 

Underneath all of the adoration and praise that the T3 devs get from TTLGers is the marked sense of dissapointment that a franchise that was so loved and supported is met with a mediocre reply (namely T3). A game that is only still remembered because of it's PC fanbase, is given to the console gamers in such a way that even the console gamers turn a nose up. I mean really...how stupid does Eidos and Ion really think X-Boxer's are?

 

But in the end, T3 is the only other "official' continuation to the story, and just like the Matrix Trilogy, die hard fans are willing to swallow anything handed to them as long as it has farmiliar names on it. People still defend last Matrix movie, even though it was so obviously sub par at best. Just like the Wachowski Brothers, Eidos and Ion manged to fuck up an unfuckupable franchise.

 

All I guess I'm saying is not to take it so personally. Alot of people over there have made thief thier lives, even if just on a subconcious level. It must hurt to realize that a game can end up sucking just as much as real life does.

 

Hylix.

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I'm not saying I agree with the sentiment, nor am I downplaying or underestimating any of TDM's prowess as professionals.

 

My posting was not aimed at you, as I understood you psoting in such a way that you are not of this opinion. :)

 

Underneath all of the adoration and praise that the T3 devs get from TTLGers is the marked sense of dissapointment that a franchise that was so loved and supported is met with a mediocre reply (namely T3).

 

Could be. But I think that in a ny fanforum this happens. Not just TTLG. :)

 

But in the end, T3 is the only other "official' continuation to the story, and just like the Matrix Trilogy, die hard fans are willing to swallow anything handed to them as long as it has farmiliar names on it.  People still defend last Matrix movie, even though it was so obviously sub par at best.  Just like the Wachowski Brothers, Eidos and Ion manged to fuck up an unfuckupable franchise.

 

Yeah. Matrix is really a good example. The second part head at least some very good SpecialFX but the story was already dragging and the last one. Well ...

 

All I guess I'm saying is not to take it so personally.  Alot of people over there have made thief thier lives, even if just on a subconcious level.  It must hurt to realize that a game can end up sucking just as much as real life does.

 

Yup. :) Well. That's life. :)

Gerhard

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T3 is most definately flawed.

 

But the Matrix? It's not that the story dragged, it just plain sucked. It was lame. There was so much potential after the 1st one. They should have kept it that way. They could have had Neo reentering the Matrix and living undercover IN the Matrix. They could have kept the Agentfear going. But they went up their own asses.

I want your brain... to make his heart... beat faster.

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Remember to credit me, and I'll make Dram the only other badass character in my TDM FM...if it ever gets made....!:D He'll be an unrelenting assassin, or merciless extortionist, or heartless salesman of comfortable thiefswear...:lol:

 

Hylix.

 

Edit: I realised sometime after this post that I should clarify something...when I say "if it ever gets made" I meant my FM, not TDM...I don't know how many seemingly great ideas have gone the way of the dodo merely because I was simply to lazy to finish them. Of course, that is working under the assumption that they were, in fact, great.... :P

Edited by Hylix Ulyx
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