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a relationship question...


lost_soul

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That's easy to say for someone not interested in this woman.

 

Yes, it's generally easier to see these things clearly when you're not neck-deep in hormones. B)

 

For goodness sake, you only live once. You tell the person you're interested in that you're interested in them, or you'll feel lousy about it.

 

Well, if he wrecks the friendship because of it (which is a distinct possibility when the woman is engaged to someone else) then he'll still feel lousy. In situations where virtually EVERY factor is against you (it's not a real face to face relationship, there are huge distances involved and she's marrying another man) the only reason to make a move like that is if you feel you have nothing to lose (or you think life might play out like a romantic comedy).

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A good lay is what is needed here. I find that sex is one of those things like eating and drinking. without water you die in what, 3 days, and then you drink a lot and you're good for another 3 days. I have found that the peak point I'm about to die at from lack of sex is about 1.5 years. Drink deep from the well, and be refreshed. It'll clear your head. Frankly, I hate dealing with women in general, and only put up with them for sex at this point. Tried that whole love thing, did NOT work out for me. biker knows that story.

At this point, I only start circulating in social circles and rut the trees with my antlers etc etc when I'm on the prowl for women, which is about once a year. Other than that, I avoid them like the plague. Wayyyy more trouble than their worth. The last one I was with about 4 months ago now, she went on a drunken binge, and was threatening to cut all her hair off if I didn't move in with her. She cut off a pretty good swath before I pinned her to the wall and yanked the scissors away from her.

Seriously, just do your business and gtfo. It's better, man.

Edited by ungoliant
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The older I get, it seems the crazier other people get. Never had the 'cut off all hair if you don't move in with me', but who knows if I went looking tomorrow, what kinda crazy I'd find..

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Oh, there are lunatics like that? *shivers* Maybe you should try hunting for ladies in somewhere else than the local asylum or something. ;)

 

That seems to be a +1 for marriage, though. Once you find a gem among the crud, you gotta capitalize it for yerself. Too bad, the older you get, the best specimens are already reserved and all you have left are the ones that did not suffice to anyone. Unless there are recirculated gems that just recently came available due to divorce etc, of course.

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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That's only if you're hunting in your own age bracket, seems the rage is a younger female partner these days, which vastly opens up your options depending on what your criteria are. There's also that formula, your age/2, +7.

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It would be interesting to hear any advice from a female forum member, but after some of the posts that have been made in this topic, I can't blame them for not wanting to touch it with a 10 foot pole... lol

 

Also, @Sotha, I'm curious. What part of my situation sounded weird? I'm not trying to be confrontational or anything... just wondering. Back in the early 2000s, we spent hours each day on the phone, we sent packages back and fourth, and I've still got a present she made and sent me back in around 2002. I brought it with me when I finally got to go visit her in 2008. I guess becoming attached to someone after all of that is pretty natural.

Edited by lost_soul

--- War does not decide who is right, war decides who is left.

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That seems to be a +1 for marriage, though. Once you find a gem among the crud, you gotta capitalize it for yerself.

 

Except that marriage doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to whether your relationship will last. All it means is that if and when you do eventually tire of each other, you have a more expensive and costly process to get through in order to disentangle yourselves.

 

Seriously, marriage must be one of the most retarded ideas ever invented by man (after religion, which is of course a big influence on the concept of marriage). It's all cost, and no benefit.

 

That's only if you're hunting in your own age bracket, seems the rage is a younger female partner these days, which vastly opens up your options depending on what your criteria are. There's also that formula, your age/2, +7.

 

I don't get the whole obsession with age. Provided someone is a legal adult, who gives a shit how many birthdays they've had? If you've got a good relationship with someone and are attracted to them, there's no logic in throwing it away just because of some arbitrary social rules made up by other people.

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Also, @Sotha, I'm curious. What part of my situation sounded weird?

 

The event of such bonding online without seeing the other person feels unnatural and unlikely to me. Seeing the trouble to develop such a situation further into packages and long lasting relationship seems also a bit strange. My amateur psychology thought-play leads me to believe that developing such a relation to a distant person may be an indication of loneliness, as the people do not have anyone to bound to into their local environment. They find substitutes who are far away. Or maybe they are scared of something and they allow personal interactions only with people who are safely far away, so that the connection can be closed easily at all times if it grows awkward. Of course, that's my perception and the situation probably is clearer from your perspective.

 

Except that marriage doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to whether your relationship will last. All it means is that if and when you do eventually tire of each other, you have a more expensive and costly process to get through in order to disentangle yourselves.

 

Seriously, marriage must be one of the most retarded ideas ever invented by man (after religion, which is of course a big influence on the concept of marriage). It's all cost, and no benefit.

 

Duly noted and you are indeed correct that marriage does not affect how long the relationship will last. Mortgage is more effective in bounding. But let us consider marriage as a commitment. In the past, marriage had the concrete benefit of making sure the children produced by the relationship do not suffer due to the families breaking apart. It is not that important nowadays as we have birth control.

 

However, nowadays people seem to undertake this pact too easily. Or alternatively, people are more short-tempered and impatient. Or outright selfish. I'm not sure which one. Normal people relations among the modern humans seem to be relations that were previously characteristic for a pathological narcissist. You can see that in blogging, FB and other social media. I think it applies to relationships between people as well.

 

I don't get the whole obsession with age.

 

I do. I've had several opportunities to interact socially with ladies younger than me. Their world is totally different and we don't have much to share. Even if they are only 5 to 10 years younger, you can still concretely see how they are different. They are just kids. Adults need grown up company. Remember, companionship is not just sex. You need to like the personality and wisdom of the other person as well. Kids are.... Well they are immature and they are kids. Of course this does not exclude exceptions.

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Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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I hate to be all mean and I'm the last person you should take relationship advice from, but me thinks you're probably more attached to the idea of this person (the filler that the brain projects to fill the gaps - and there's a lot of gaps to fill if you've just been phoning and emailing) than the lying, cheating, no good she-monster herself.

 

Damn brains.

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Reads a bit like a romantic hollywood comedy. =) I do hope for a happy end, so just go for it. :)

 

From my personal experience, friendship does not work anyway, when one side has deeper feelings, so you basically got nothing to lose. If you keep up the friendship you will just feel jealous of her husband later and feel neglected and such.

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I don't get the whole obsession with age.

 

 

I do. I've had several opportunities to interact socially with ladies younger than me. Their world is totally different and we don't have much to share. Even if they are only 5 to 10 years younger, you can still concretely see how they are different. They are just kids. Adults need grown up company. Remember, companionship is not just sex. You need to like the personality and wisdom of the other person as well. Kids are.... Well they are immature and they are kids. Of course this does not exclude exceptions.

 

This is pretty much what I would have replied with had I checked back here in time. There's nothing "wrong" with a significantly younger partner, however they will have grown up in a different social climate and environment (and I believe this is more pronounced the bigger the age gap), they'll have different values, different avenues for experiences etc.. and will quite likely have a different set of beliefs, interests and so-on simply based on where and when they grew up.

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Seriously, marriage must be one of the most retarded ideas ever invented by man (after religion, which is of course a big influence on the concept of marriage). It's all cost, and no benefit.

 

Some very jaded opinions on this forum it seems. lol

 

Marriage isn't the problem. It's the people who enter into marriage thinking it's some sort of fairy tale fix all...."everything will be different and perfect once we're married". It was something I refused to do for 10 years, and my partner was fine with that. She didn't have any plans to change me, but in the end I changed myself and decided I wanted to Marry her because she was my best friend..period. Nobody comes close to her. After knowing each other for over 17 years, we still make each other laugh.

 

The key is, you can't just be 'in love' that's the hormones talking...you have to be best friends.

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seems the rage is a younger female partner these days

 

These days? Older men dating younger women has been the norm in virtually every society on earth. It's basic evolution. Men need to mate with young and healthy women who have the best chance of having healthy offspring and women need to mate with men who are established and can provide resources and protection. It's why, on average, women get turned on by money and power, and men get turned on by hot teenagers.

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You're talking about marriage as if it's the worst thing in the world. You can always get the divorce if it's not working.. I mean, I don't see much of the point, really, (it's just like being together, only with some extra bureaucracy) but I don't see anything wrong with it either.

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My experience is that you don't really know a person until you're living with them. Yes you argue, yes you have the greatest of times but you get to walk away at the end of it and start again tomorrow. When you live with them, you see them 'warts and all' and if you still enjoy being with them and can put up with their shit, you're onto a pretty good thing.

 

The point I'm making is that you talk, you have kept in touch but it obviously wasn't enough to take it further otherwise you'd have done so. I think you've been friend zoned and will only cause problems making things known now (i.e. with a second wedding in future). My advice is move on but still be friends. You never know what (or who) is around the corner anyway. Also, if she felt the same way about you, she'd have been trying to get back in touch all that time too.

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You can always get the divorce if it's not working..

 

Yes, you can get a divorce, which is a time-consuming and costly process that, depending on your financial situation and jurisdiction, could see you forced to hand over to your ex-spouse a large chunk of your income (or savings; if you lose your job you might still have to pay) for the rest of your life. Not to mention the cost of the wedding itself, which can quickly add up if you are silly enough to repeat the mistake a second or third time.

 

Alternatively you can simply not get married, have the exact same life you would have had if you were married, but when the relationship eventually breaks down — and it probably will, because nothing lasts forever — you can walk away with no further obligations.

 

I don't see anything wrong with it either.

 

A legal fiction that could potentially bring you a whole pile of disadvantages, and offers almost nothing in return beyond perhaps some slight tax benefits and a priority claim on the spouse's estate when they die. The maths seems pretty simple to me.

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Depends on the rules in the area you live in, I'm pretty sure the law around here changed so that if you live with someone for an amount of time, I think it's 6 months, even if you're not married, if you split they're entitled to a portion of your stuff. Basically, being married without the piece of paper or the tax incentives.

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but when the relationship eventually breaks down — and it probably will, because nothing lasts forever

 

Except for the other 50% of marriages that actually do.

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Seriously, marriage must be one of the most retarded ideas ever invented by man (after religion, which is of course a big influence on the concept of marriage). It's all cost, and no benefit.

 

I thought marriage from a man's POV was to be the equivalent of "find the woman you hate the most and who really hates you, then buy her a house". :D Joking.

 

Joking aside, there are some advantages of a marriage (financially like widow benefits etc, emotionally (knowing you are in a stable relatinship where the partner really committed to it not just said so), and also for your kids etc.) I see it more like a "working contract" - sure, you can also work (if that is legal, tho) /o one, but a contract has a few benefits for both sides. It can also go wrong, tho, but at least you know where you stand.

 

However, some of these advantages are now granted for "non-marriage" scenarios. So, how much of an advantage this really is depends on:

 

* how long it lasts (ideally forever)

* which side you are when you split (the one with the job, or the one with the house etc)

* how you split (angry or okay from each other)

* and what contract you did, or how the law is in your country

 

Discounting all this and sweeping it under the blanket of "all marriage is bad rah rah" isn't really how it works. People seem to confuse this with "marry, divorce angrily a year later and be poor afterwards". I don't want to have all these people who enter a marriage like going to the cinema to confused with all the other people who rightly see it as a partnership for as long as possible.

 

(And that is all w/oeven going into the religious side of things, which is completely sep. from that).

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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Haha you guys remind me of this guy.

 

The Poet

 

Aleister Crowley

 

 

Bury me in a nameless grave!

I came from God the world to save.

I brought them wisdom from above:

Worship, and liberty, and love.

They slew me for I did disparage

Therefore Religion, Law and Marriage.

So be my grave without a name

That earth may swallow up my shame!

I'm always amazed that people take what I say seriously. I don't even take what I am seriously.

David Bowie

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Speaking of which, did you know Rowena in the FM Rowena's Curse was one of Crowley's ritual mistresses? (... the one that he drove to suicide IIRC. So that covers all three of his "disparagings" I think.)

 

BTW, I always thought Lady Rowena was the best author for handling relationships in FMs. I was inspired by her style of having all the NPCs relate to one another, I couldn't help throwing in an NPC relationship in my own FM, just with the added twist that it was a secret scandalous gay relationship.

 

Whatever you have to say about relationships, I think one has to admit in the real world they are (usually) complicated ambivalent affairs that, if they're one of the lucky ones, do the best they can under the circumstances... Not always though. Some people marry their highschool girlfriends and from the way they talk it's as if it never occurs to them that relationships could be all that complicated. But frankly I think people like that are missing out on something important in life if they've never really faced the complications that most people go through. That said, I pretty much can't dwell on my own complicated history too much or it'll drive me mad. There's something to be said for a little mythologizing simplicity sometimes too.

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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