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Fan Mission: Sneak & Destroy, by SeriousToni, Beginner's Contest 2012 - Update 11/2022


SeriousToni
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Sneak & Destroy - Do you like it? :)  

71 members have voted

  1. 1. Gameplay: Enjoyment. Fun duration. Smooth flow, ect. Versus Bugs. Frustration, Boredom, framelag

  2. 2. Appearance: Vertical use, Visual pleasure, lighting, visual style, deduct bad texturing etc.

  3. 3. Story & Text: Story. Text. Briefing. Graphic storytelling



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Very well done.

 

The only problem I encountered was

 

 

 

The guy in the toilet stall at the Inn kept standing up and sitting down. Possibly because he heard me enter the bathroom. He never saw me, but when I got back outside the Inn, he was sitting outside, with only his feet sticking into the wall. He'd stand up and disappear inside, then sit back down and reappear outside. This is a TDM bug with AI sitting/standing/sitting/standing etc. They tend to work their way backward, and in this case, it pushed him outside the Inn.

 

 

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and the SOB had his tinderbox out and was just about to relight the light I'd put out. *$#@^@*U@!!!

The new relighting ability add very much to the Mod if cleverly set from a mapper. Like in ST's map. Really an very excellent gameplay enhancement grayman! As well the animations and barks for the relighting add much atmosphere. Superb achievement TDM Team!

Edited by fllood

"To rush is without doubt the most important enemy of joy" ~ Thieves Saying

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Just voted and to explain why I only voted "good" for the gameplay.

Two reasons - the problem with

knocking out the assassin before going in her room. A readable in the room giving an idea as to who it was (even the fact that the assassin was female) would have got round the problem

and I thought that the guards were a little too easy to knock out on the hardest setting

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The book you missed, which explains everything to you. It isn't there because I want to go on with the story and even the mystery that is around there for the sequel mission ;)

Edited by SeriousToni

"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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Please use a Spoiler box.

And yes, the intention was that everybody knows when he found the clue that it is clear - I don't wanted to search the player in long textx books about hints or something - or even completely missing any complex hidden hints and giving up. So I think this is a good solution - and if it made you laugh, then well - guess it was fun! :D

"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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One of the core aspects of Darkmod is nonlinearity and freedom after all.

 

Hmmm... Not necessarily. The two maps I know from you were pretty linear and very focused on a single task (I know they were test maps, it was a joke). The Creeps is one of my favourite maps here and it has a very focused, experience-rich path for you to follow, at your own pace. No sneaking whatsoever, no looting, just puzzle solving, and very nice ingame cutscenes and effects. Its not about how people like to play, it is about what the mapper imagined and has constructed for you, in my opinion.

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When player is given freedom, he should not be punished for using it. There are many ways to limit player's freedom if mapper wants him to proceed a certain way. Nonlinearity is a core aspect of the genre. Most maps have multiple routes to achieve the same goal, order in which player can finish objectives is optional, player can chose whether to knock guards down, kill them or leave them alone, etc.

It's only a model...

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Just gone back and started playing on hardest setting this time - went to the smaller inn first and

the open balcony design suddenly made a lot more sense; it became a lot more challenging with a "Don't be seen" objective. I did trigger a first-level alert when I was at the top of the stairs

and both guards wandered up to check me out but I still managed to evade them. Plus there was a lot more tension

getting in and out again through that brightly lit window

with the guard on patrol outside. No KO's so far, and no reloads (both of which are really, really unusual for me), but I'm now in the larger inn so we'll see how I get on :unsure: .

 

BTW - the rat movements are great! Is 'zip-along-really-fast-and-then-jump-up-and-down' a standard animation or did you program that yourself? (There are a lot of more recent FMs I haven't played yet, so I'm never really sure what's standard and what's individual to a particular FMA.) Love it either way :).

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When player is given freedom, he should not be punished for using it. There are many ways to limit player's freedom if mapper wants him to proceed a certain way. Nonlinearity is a core aspect of the genre. Most maps have multiple routes to achieve the same goal, order in which player can finish objectives is optional, player can chose whether to knock guards down, kill them or leave them alone, etc.

 

So the fact that in this map you cant rambo-ing around, headshotting innocent civilians, makes it to one of the worst released TDM missions ever for you?

 

Aside from that this mission is one of the most non-linear of the Mod as you can roam around the open map freely in 2 unrelated big inns, lol.

Edited by jysk
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So the fact that in this map you cant rambo-ing around, headshotting innocent civilians, makes it to one of the worst released TDM missions ever for you?

 

Aside from that this mission is one of the most non-linear of the Mod as you can roam around the open map freely in 2 unrelated big inns, lol.

"Ramboing" is always an option unless mapper excludes it by setting no-kill objective. To your information I did not "rambo" anything, only knoked out some NPCs. Again, if blackjacking some NPC breaks a mission, mapper can set a 'no knockouts' objective or 'do not be seen'. And as I already stated I don't think it was worse than other TDM missions. I often not finish them for various reasons.

It's only a model...

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@ Simplenoob:

Believe me, I really took weeks on planning and structuring for this. And in the end it worked out pretty good for me, so it was possible to set up things like don't be seen. It created more tension, but is never too hard since this is not a "fortress mission". I really hope more players will try this one out on a harder difficulty, since it created the most fun (for me personally).

It even made more sense to me in regard to the main objective, to not be seen, etc.

"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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Again, if blackjacking some NPC breaks a mission, mapper can set a 'no knockouts' objective or 'do not be seen'.

 

picard-facepalm2.jpg?w=450&h=302

 

I'm sorry, I know I promised no more comments on him, but..

There are actually these two objectives in this mission - if you play on harder you'll notice them. I can't setup this for easy as most players will not even try to play this one then.

Blackjacking doesn't "Break" the mission - you can bj everyone who's not suggested, but you (if you think a bit about it) shouldn't bj everyone if you don't know yet, who's the killer. Maybe there's a prevention if you have coding skills, but I am glad that I even could make them go to their rooms without any help. So I think it is okay for a first mission.

 

And as I already stated I don't think it was worse than other TDM missions. I often not finish them for various reasons.

 

As jysk said before - I become thinking if this is the right game for you.

"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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Well, I become thinking you are 10 years old.

Shouldn't bj everyone if you don't know yet, who's the killer.

Because? I can't search for clues when everybody is sleeping? Playing the way you not imagined breaks the mission. Reading on forum that ups, you have to restart it is not very fun.

You obviously believed that your map is excellent and near perfect.

It's only a model...

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It created more tension, but is never too hard since this is not a "fortress mission".
Confession: I don't find it boring to knock everyone out, as I'm always still slightly on edge wondering if I have got everyone. I only ghost if I'm forced to (and I don't usually enjoy it) - this part of your map was a good intro for a ghosting-phobe like me (if I can ghost it, I'd say probably anyone could :)).

 

@grayman: It's a good standard :) . May have seen it before but never noticed it - like the rusty iron handles on the gates of this map; suddenly started seeing them everywhere in other maps, but I don't think I've ever seen them so beautifully lit before. :wub:

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I only ghost if I'm forced to (and I don't usually enjoy it) - this part of your map was a good intro for a ghosting-phobe like me (if I can ghost it, I'd say probably anyone could :)).

 

So this mission becomes the official title "ghosting tutorial" from you? :laugh:

"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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And as I already stated I don't think it was worse than other TDM missions. I often not finish them for various reasons.

 

Ok, that means you think 99% of all TDM missions are complete garbage when zero points is the average for you. That really explains it I guess.

Edited by jysk
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So this mission becomes the official title "ghosting tutorial" from you? :laugh:

For the smaller inn, I'd definitely recommend any other ghostaphobes to give it a go; I'll get back to you about the larger inn when I give it a go (later tonight hopefully) - have a suspicion it'll be a tad more tricky... :unsure:
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@ simplen00b: If you have some water arrows and moss arrows left - then it is time to use them ;) It is even possible to do it without any equipement if you watch the guards routes - there are some good hiding places :)

 

@ jysk: I really wonder how one can become developer if he doesn't like or play the game he's developing :blink:

"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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  • SeriousToni changed the title to Fan Mission: Sneak & Destroy, by SeriousToni, Beginner's Contest 2012 - Update 11/2022

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