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Do you expect vines, pipes, or chains to be climbable?


Professor Paul1290

How do you expect possible climbable objects to behave?  

41 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you expect vines to be climbable?

  2. 2. Do you expect pipes to be climbable?

  3. 3. Do you expect chains to be climbable?



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Wasn't really sure what to vote - my answer would be that I'd hope all three were climbable and would give them a go, but I don't get frustrated if they aren't - so I voted 'sometimes' as it seemed the least inaccurate answer.

 

I do get frustrated by wooden structures that rope arrows just clatter off (pretty sure I've come across them but can't remember a specific FM); likewise broad, horizontal/gently-sloping pipes should always be climbable IMO, even if they don't go anywhere.

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I think some of the wooden looking facades murder rope arrows (had that happen to me on Phrase Book)

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There could be many different types of foliage that could be applied to walls.

Only one kind ....say leafy vines (plants show thick vines as the stalk) are employed into the map, only they would be climbable.

Ivy you can't climb but wild grape vines you can where I live.

 

As for pipes in my opinion, they should all be climbable, and if not wanted by the mapper, the mapper can put some obstruction a distance up to block a climb. When I was younger my friends and I were able to climb to the roof of my junior high school using a pipe - guess quite a few did that as over time the school put an obstruction ( metal disc) around the pipe, so it was not passable - now I know how squirrels feel :D

 

As for chains, as someone said earlier, the thinner ones you can't climb, the thicker ones you can.

 

 

Do I have to test each pipe that I pass to see if I can climb? Even tho' from the ground I may not be able to see anything up there, worthwhile, I know in some previous games ( DM T2), you can get a nice surprise if you do! If there was an obstruction to the climb ( again seen in previous games) , I would not try it.

 

If I walk by plants on the wall, am I always to try to climb them every single time in a game?

On the other hand, if I am passing by walls have ivy or whatever on it I would not even try to climb it, until if I was lucky came across a vine-growing plant, something that would support my weight

 

My opinion.

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I always try and climb vines, pipes and chains in FMs. The thing is if they are climbable then any that are used for decorative purposes then have to be accounted for and a new area that can be reached has to be created, or the geomotry of a building changed to restrict where the player can get too. This can all get very out of control for mappers.

 

The thing is you cannot have for example a climbable pipe in a map and then have all the other pipes not climbable. I recently played a Thief FM and tried to climb a pipe. it didn't work. I rightly assumed all pipes would then be not climbable. Wrong! After completing all objectives except one I had to ask for help to be told I had to climb one specific pipe that is climbable to complete that objective.

 

Short answer is it would be nice if they were climbable but it can make life hard for mappers who want to use these for decorative purposes.

"I believe that what doesn't kill you simply makes you... stranger"

 

The Joker

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Hm, perhaps doing something like marking a climbable pipe with vines would be a sensible way to have some pipes climbable in a mission?

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Hm, perhaps doing something like marking a climbable pipe with vines would be a sensible way to have some pipes climbable in a mission?

 

That is a good idea Xarg

 

 

 

Or as I said before, have all pipes climbable, but put an some simple obstruction up the, and around the pipe if they are not meant to be climbed

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  • 2 weeks later...

The other day while playing "In Remembrance of Him"...

 

 

I got to the part with the pit with a pipe along the right-most wall and what looked like a beam hanging off the top of the building in front of me. This was just after crossing the collapsed building.

I tried over and over to get up there because it really REALLY looked doable, each time falling to my death. Then I checked with noclip and realized that there was nothing up there and the sky was preventing me from jumping up to grab the plank.

What convinced me that it was possible was the fact that I could ascend the pipe and that piece of wood sticking out.

 

--- War does not decide who is right, war decides who is left.

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I don't have a problem with it varying from map to map. In real life, you'd have to tug on a vine to see if it would hold your wait, or test a pipe to see if you could climb it, so I'm okay with testing things on a case by case basis. It's a bit peeving when there is one of the three that clearly looks like it goes somewhere (a chain hanging right beside a balcony) but it isn't climbable. The only time it's a serious problem is when there is no way to test it without dying, like a chain hanging over a long drop that can only be reached by jumping.

 

+1

Add to that, clues for special cases and game readme if warning needed.

 

Variety is good. Never climbing chains and vines and pipes is weird.

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  • 3 weeks later...

No, I don't expect any of those things to be climbable. I only expect things that are clearly there for the purpose of allowing people in the place I'm investigating to climb to be climbable (ladders and such). If I want to try and climb to get someplace else, that's what rope arrows are for, or the much more rare vine arrows, if I happen to have some of those. Skill and clever use of such things is an important part of the whole Thiefy experience. :)

 

And Sotha makes a very important point. Thief fan mission makers need to be very careful about what places they make climbable. The scarcity of them is one of the key points of it being so dangerous to alert the guards to your presence (and that should indeed be a dangerous thing to do). I'd say keep it to ladders or obvious stacked crates or dangling strong ropes, and keep the number of those low and at places where it's essential they be there. The rest is up to the player's resourcefulness.

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In my opinion this poll is a moot point, it's up to the mapper to choose in every case... as a player, theses elements should be climbable only if they look you can climb on it and the lead somewhere... it's fristating when you see a place where you should obviously be able to climb and it would greatly help you but you just can't... but it's definately up to the mapper to either make it look not climbable or allow us to climb on it

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Absolutely. This poll is to give mappers feedback as to how to implement climbable pipes and vines etc. so players will expect them. No poll is going to change imaginative mappers who really want to include alternate climbables. They have been part of Thief for getting on for fifteen years; there are lots of FMs with them in. There are Dark Mod FMs with them, including the Trainer and more FMs to come will have them. This thread is really to raise awareness so players know they will always be a possibility in any FM. Unless the readme states "This FM does not include any climbables except ladders" then all players should be prepared to check pipes and vines and chains and any other likely surface just as they would in real life. In return, mappers should use their judgment as to whether to include a readme for anything they think might be unfair for some.

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  • 1 month later...

To me consitency of the environmental elements is pretty important; it doesn't matter if a vine "goes somewhere" or just leads up into a dead-end tree. If I see ropes, vines, and chains I always want to see if I can climb them just to see where they go. If the element is always up to the mapper it can be confusing, but if the interaction is "always on" I can see mappers will have to be careful sometimes or they could map a route right around (or over) their plot line. Still, my vote is Yes/Yes/Yes.

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  • 2 weeks later...

While I certainly don't have an automatic *expectation* of those sorts of things to be climbable, I don't object to them being climbable on occasion. As it is a lot of fun to explore and try different routes in and around cathedrals, castles and museums, or look for secret areas hidden above some clever way up, etc. :) But I would expect there to be some subtle visual clues that this particular viney spot is climbable, if there are many such vines over other areas of the walls, for example.

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