Steam: Greenlight

[New Horizon]

Haven't read all pages of this thread but I think going to Steam is a very good idea. The more people you reach the more likely people are creating new content for the game. This is not just about new maps. It's about mapping tutorials, guides, walkthroughs, artworks and more. Just look at the Steam Community pages from other games. In my opinion The Dark Mod should ship as a package with the training mission and St. Lucia (plus maybe one or two other missions, there could be a vote about the missions). For other missions I think Steam Workshop is the way to go. There is no need to manage new missions by administrators. Just let the map makers upload them to the workshop and the community can download them from there. They can rate the missions and write comments about it, too. So the TDM team just have to worry about the main game. All additional missions are handled by the community.

 

Another thing is SteamVR. It is not important now but what if VR is "the thing" in a few years? From what I know it should be easy to use and a VR mode for TDM could be nice in the future.

 

 

So you're saying we should completely abandon one of the nicest features in the Mod, the ingame downloader? It's not an all or nothing situation. I don't think Steam should be used for anything more than the deliver the 'core' mod to users. After that, updates and FM fetching would be downloaded by the mod itself.

[motorsep]

To use Workshop, one needs Steamworks. Steamworks can't be implemented due to conflict with GPL license.

[Springheel]

Source?

[motorsep]

Source?

 

Joking? http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html

[New Horizon]

So since steam works has to be integrated into the mod, that would prevent us from going that route anyway is what you're saying.

[Springheel]

1. What does the GNU Operating system have to do with Steamworks?

 

2. What is your source for the claim "Steamworks can't be implemented due to conflict with GPL license."

[Airship Ballet]

In case it needs to be clarified: Steamworks does not mean being on Steam, it means all the extra stuff like tracking of high scores, achievements and workshop mods hosted in the Steam client. TDM has no need of steamworks in the first place, in fact I think everyone's pretty happy with where it is. Most concerns are actually about having to add anything to the game to get it on Steam. High scores, achievements and mods are hardly suited to the infrastructure of the game.

 

Also workshop content is generally pretty crappy. When anybody can upload half-assed work, you end up with very few diamonds in a whole lot of rough.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Airship Ballet

[LordSavage]

So you're saying we should completely abandon one of the nicest features in the Mod, the ingame downloader? It's not an all or nothing situation. I don't think Steam should be used for anything more than the deliver the 'core' mod to users. After that, updates and FM fetching would be downloaded by the mod itself.

 

Just thought it would be nice to have it all managed by others so the mod team don't need to fiddle around with it. But if it's in conflict with the GPL the workshop idea is dead anyway. And you are right, the mission downloads are very very good as they are. But I still think TDM should use the Steam update mechanism. I always hate when games have their own third party tools for things like this. Just let steam do it, so the game updates when the update is ready and you can control the downloads with the global settings. These 3rd party tools are always annoying in steam.

[motorsep]

1. What does the GNU Operating system have to do with Steamworks?

 

2. What is your source for the claim "Steamworks can't be implemented due to conflict with GPL license."

 

GNU GPL license is my source. It clearly states that any code merged with GPL code has to be/become GPL. I don't have time to waste on this nonsense. You've been on board with TDM too long and you should know the limitations due to engine's GPL license.

 

If Steamworks could be implemented with GPL code, then Steel Storm had Steamworks implemented. However, it's impossible due to the GPL license on the engine.

[SteveL]

I haven't seen anything that suggests that Workshop is incompatible with GPL, but we probably want to steer clear of it anyway for various reasons that you'll find up there somewhere earlier in the thread.

 

We can do TDM releases via steam, while providing mission downloads through our current downloader. Although we might well push new missions through Steam too, if we decide to go that way. Afaik there's been no decision there yet. Advantages of pushing mission updates through Steam would be (1) we are more active with more frequent updates, and more people would get to see new missions without having to check for them, and (2) we'd avoid the risk of our mirrors all going down whenever there's a media buzz, which has happened before and is never good.

[Anderson]

 

Just thought it would be nice to have it all managed by others so the mod team don't need to fiddle around with it. But if it's in conflict with the GPL the workshop idea is dead anyway. And you are right, the mission downloads are very very good as they are. But I still think TDM should use the Steam update mechanism. I always hate when games have their own third party tools for things like this. Just let steam do it, so the game updates when the update is ready and you can control the downloads with the global settings. These 3rd party tools are always annoying in steam.

Updates through Steam may work only if it's of the core mod itself. And that's it.

Not the missions as motorstep suggests.

 

I think you are right in here.

[motorsep]

I haven't seen anything that suggests that Workshop is incompatible with GPL, but we probably want to steer clear of it anyway for various reasons that you'll find up there somewhere earlier in the thread.

 

Seriously, Workshop has C++ code, just like the rest of the Steamworks SDK. I don't know if you guy messing with me or can't wrap your heads around the concept :/

[SteveL]

Seriously, Workshop has C++ code, just like the rest of the Steamworks SDK. I don't know if you guy messing with me or can't wrap your heads around the concept :/

What I don't get -- and what you haven't explained -- is the connection between FM distribution and the GPL. We're talking about distributing FMs. What have those got to do with the GPL? FMs are separate content saved in a separate folder, that can be put there by any one of a variety of mechanisms that have nothing to do with the GPL game code.

[Airship Ballet]

 

Seriously, Workshop has C++ code, just like the rest of the Steamworks SDK. I don't know if you guy messing with me or can't wrap your heads around the concept :/

Can you just not read, or what? Workshop isn't happening, nor is Steamworks to any degree.

[LordSavage]

 

Updates through Steam may work only if it's of the core mod itself. And that's it.

 

Than just publish the core mod on steam and let people download the missions with the downloader.

[Airship Ballet]

Than just publish the core mod on steam and let people download the missions with the downloader.

Current plan of action is to put the whole game and every mission up on Steam, and update the install whenever there's a new mission or game update. The alternative is to do as you say.

[motorsep]

What I don't get -- and what you haven't explained -- is the connection between FM distribution and the GPL. We're talking about distributing FMs. What have those got to do with the GPL? FMs are separate content saved in a separate folder, that can be put there by any one of a variety of mechanisms that have nothing to do with the GPL game code.

 

There ya go - to download FMs via Workshop you don't need anything. Just subscribe and get it via web browser or Steam client (if you do it via web, when you launcher Steam client mod/FM will download). However, to upload FM to Steam Workshop you need SDK implementation. You can not implement this part in the engine. That's where GPL conflict is. And I brought it up, yet again, when I saw post #325.

[motorsep]

Can you just not read, or what? Workshop isn't happening, nor is Steamworks to any degree.

 

No shit Sherlock, that's what I said. Where do you see me proposing Steamworks / Workshop ?

[HMart]

 

No shit Sherlock, that's what I said. Where do you see me proposing Steamworks / Workshop ?

I'm not a moderator nor a TDM team member but IMO Motorsep please refrain from being rude, you can explain people your point of view without resorting to that kind of language, it makes for a bad environment on the forum.

Edited March 12, 2015 by HMart

[motorsep]

I'm not a moderator nor a TDM team member but imo Motorsep please refrain from being rude, you can explain people your point of view without resorting to that kind of language, it makes for a bad environment on the forum.

 

I am just giving Airship Ballet his own medicine.. I wasn't rude to anyone, and yet he took it upon himself. I explained my point across several pages already.

[Airship Ballet]

I am just giving Airship Ballet his own medicine.. I wasn't rude to anyone, and yet he took it upon himself. I explained my point across several pages already.

The lack of self-awareness is strong with this one. C'mon, man, you've been doing nothing but bringing up steamworks and slagging people off for pages.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Airship Ballet

[motorsep]

The lack of self-awareness is strong with this one. C'mon, man, you've been doing nothing but bringing up steamworks and slagging people off for pages.

 

No, someone just didn't read my posts at all. Please read #321 carefully.

 

I have been bringing Steamworks to light because various people suggested various things that can not be implemented either due to GPL, or because it's not possible at all. And I have been simply clarifying things.

[Airship Ballet]

Joking? [...] I don't have time to waste on this nonsense. [...] I don't know if you guy messing with me or can't wrap your heads around the concept :/

"I wasn't rude to anyone" - Motorsep, 12, PhD.

 

#321 is you stating the obvious that was already established as fact way back. It's strange how incompetent you assume everybody is: all your frustration has come from mistaking questioning for ignorance. If everybody were as elitist to people asking questions as you are, we'd probably just now be marvelling at the electric light.

[SeriousToni]

lol guys, stop that crap ^^°

 

[Airship Ballet]

lol guys, stop that crap ^^°

What? Why? If someone challenges your argument, you stick up for it. I'd argue that being challenged is almost essential to work anything through properly, as you never really get your head around your own opinion until you're made to explore it in detail. You're the "stahp" woman in this scenario, and stahp women prevent things getting done! It's good that someone's challenging the current plan of attack, though I'd have preferred someone less confrontational to do it.