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Steam: Greenlight



93 members have voted

  1. 1. when we shall start presenting TDM on Steam Greenlight?

    • Imediately, classified as the "concept". We will change that on "playable" after going standalone. We need to take advantage of the attention drawn to the greenlight.
    • After going standalone. We dont want to present something that cant be playable at the moment (via Steam).
    • Never. The competition is just too strong.
    • Imediately, classified as the "playable" (DOOM 3 Steam version required). We need to take advantage of the attention drawn to the greenlight.

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problem with steams greenlight is that steam would have to be running in the background and if it can't connect to the internet then it would stop you from playing thedarkmod if it were a greenlighted game, it would say cannot play in offline mode or something like that.
Perhaps the game can be released on Steam and regularly, DRM-free.
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Perhaps the game can be released on Steam and regularly, DRM-free.


It totally can, there are a few games at least that have been or will be released on steam that have DRM free downloads/purchases hosted elsewhere.


I dont get why people are paranoid about that, TDM will be able to have a DRM free download if you dont like DRM and it should work just fine, just because it's on steam it wouldn't mean EVERYONE would HAVE to use steam to play TDM.

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problem with steams greenlight is that steam would have to be running in the background and if it can't connect to the internet then it would stop you from playing thedarkmod if it were a greenlighted game, it would say cannot play in offline mode or something like that.

News to me. I could find nothing on a cursory Google search, nor do I see why Greenlit games would be different from any other game in this respect. Finally I went to the trouble of downloading Greenlight's Cry of Fear to test your claim, and it worked just fine offline. This is a former mod, now gone standalone, single player, completely free, and works in offline mode. No problem.


But even if it was, people with irregular Internet access would obviously choose the DRM-free version anyway.

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Just an observation, but why do people keep trying to bring money in, or throw it around at seemingly periodic intervals when it comes to this game? Money doesn't buy passion, doesn't buy fans, and doesn't buy dedicated mappers. For the most part, all of the tools are already here, what we need is people with passion, not printed paper money. What would you even buy with this theoretical donation?

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I appreciate the enthusiasm. Speaking for myself, I've been busting my ass since the spring to get TDM 2.0 ready...and I'm pretty much burned out now. I don't have the energy to put into promoting this idea, or even really thinking too hard about whether it's a good idea or not. I know there's a lot of excitement out there, which is great, and if someone else wants to spearhead it, feel free....in the meantime I'm going to limp off and see what the outdoors look like.

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Just an observation, but why do people keep trying to bring money in, or throw it around at seemingly periodic intervals when it comes to this game? Money doesn't buy passion, doesn't buy fans, and doesn't buy dedicated mappers. For the most part, all of the tools are already here, what we need is people with passion, not printed paper money. What would you even buy with this theoretical donation?

Because we understand that passion is nothing without time. And we want developers to be free from stupid work with freelancing or something or that is there way to earn for living. We want them to be comfortable doing all this. Thief communiti always was full of passion counting fanmissions from T1-2 but money could bring this all to new level of professionalism not like Thief 4. It could be product from fans to fans. Strange you ask such question after all this KS campaings.

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what we need is people with passion, not printed paper money. What would you even buy with this theoretical donation?


Polish and consistency.


(Note: I'm not saying we should be doing this, but it's what people are thinking about when they offer donations.)


If we can get enough money together, it is possible to outrught hire a few of the more talented map makers to put together an actual campaign.


Alternately, we can offer rewards for certain elements or fixes to the dev team, and possibly licence some of the proprietary parts of the doom3 engine that were left out of the source code release. (mostly performance tweaks).


We could also hire an actual screenwriter and an artist/ designer to come up with a VERY detailed campaign script and concept sketches so that the rest of us have a clear plan to work toward. ( and then, again, have an actual dedicated "editor" or "head map designer" position that is being paid to assemble all of the donated elements into the final maps and polish everything so that it feels homogenous..


If we are making an "official" campaign, then it needs to all feel like the polished work of a single dedicated team, not a hodgepodge mix of different art styles and play styles.

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money money money


There are multiple threads about this topic if you do a search for them. The quick and dirty version is that introducing money into a free-time project hugely complicates things, and has the potential to do tremendous damage. It's not a risk we're willing to take.

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The only way I see the team being comfortable with taking money, would be to cover costs for server hosting/bandwidth costs. However, as the team have, are and no doubt will continue to make clear, no money, please. I'm sure the thought is appreciated, I know I'd be flattered.

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Do not donate money. Donate time.

A coder could help squashing bugs. A talented voice guy/gal could help with voice acting. A modeler could model.


If you can't do stuff, learn DR and 'pay' for TDM by making a killer mission! Mapping ain't rocket science, almost anyone can learn it!


That's how it works around here. No money donations. Donate time!

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-The mapper's best friend.

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Yes, our standard line is if you want to donate something: make an FM, make a model, make a sound effect, make a briefing, make a texture, record your voice, code, write a fanfic, draw some fan art, post nice things about us, contribute! Things like that are the real lifeblood of our community.


Back to the topic at hand though, could somebody do some homework on Steam Greenlight, possibly emailing to Greenlight admins and asking directly, and then post in a simple-to-read format exactly what would need to be done for TDM to get on it, if it meets all the conditions (if any), what it would entail if it goes on (e.g., do they want a version bundled with DRM; how would it deal with our updater; etc), anything else. It's great to have a big outlet like that. I think the first thing we need is all the information in one place, and then we can start thinking about what to do.

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What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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I already linked their Greenlight FAQ, but if it will attract more notice, I can always just post the whole thing:




What is Steam Greenlight?

Steam Greenlight is a system that enlists the community's help in picking some of the new games to be released on Steam. Developers post information, screenshots, and video for their game and seek a critical mass of community support in order to get selected for distribution. Steam Greenlight also helps developers get feedback from potential customers and start creating an active community around their game during the development process.


Why hasn't it always worked like this?

Over the many years that Steam has been selling games, the release rate of games on Steam has continued to grow significantly. During that time, there's always been a reliance on a group of people to make tough choices on which games to release on Steam. While that group has attempted to pick the games they felt the community would most want to see on Steam, we knew there had to be a better way.

With the introduction of the Steam Workshop in October 2011, we established a flexible system within Steam that organizes content and lets customers rate and leave feedback. This opened up a new opportunity to enlist the community's help as we grow Steam and hopefully increase the volume and quality of creative submissions.

We are always trying to find ways to improve the process of Steam distribution, and this is a big step in that direction.

Who should submit their games to Steam Greenlight? Is there another way to submit my game to Steam?

Steam Greenlight has replaced our previous submission process. Any developer or publisher who is new to Steam and interested in submitting their game to the platform should submit their game through Steam Greenlight.

I know of a game that should be on here? What do I do?

Go contact the game developer and suggest that they submit their game for consideration.

There's a game on Steam Greenlight that I really want to see succeed. What can I do?

Go tell your friends; just don't be annoying about it.

My favorite game just got Greenlit. How long before it launches on Steam?

Games are submitted to Steam Greenlight in various stages of completion. Once a game has been Greenlit, Valve will reach out to the developer to determine their timeline for finishing their game and launching on Steam.

How do I report a fake/fraudulent/malicious game in Steam Greenlight?

When you're looking at the page for a game in Steam Greenlight, there is a 'Report' right next to the rating buttons, below the screenshots. Please report the item and tell us why you’re doing so.

What about non-game Software?

There's a section for that! You should submit your non-game software to Steam, as well. Customers will be able to vote on it just like games.




Steam Greenlight For Developers:

What do I need in order to submit my game?

You'll need a valid and non-limited Steam account (yes, that means you'll need to own a game on Steam). Then you'll need to fill out the submission form, including some information about you and your game. There's also a one-time $100 submission fee per Steam account. The submission will require:

  • A square branding image (similar to a box cover) to represent your game in lists and search
  • At least 1 video showing off your game or presenting your concept
  • At least 4 screenshots or images
  • A written description of the game along with the tentative system requirements.

What is the purpose of the Submission Fee?

In order to keep spam and joke submissions out of the system, there’s a one-time submission fee that will enable your Steam account to submit games to Steam Greenlight. Once you’ve paid the fee, you can submit as many games as you want. All proceeds from the submission fee are donated to Child’s Play, a charity dedicated to improving the lives of children in over 70 hospitals worldwide.

What happens when I submit my game?

As soon as you set your game's visiblity to public, it will start showing up for the community to review. Come back often to respond to community feedback, answer questions or update your page with new developments or media.

Can I update my entry after I’ve submitted my game?

Please do! We encourage you to update your presence in Steam as often as you like to keep your fans and potential customers involved in your development process.

Are there any restrictions on what can be posted?

Your game must not contain offensive material or violate copyright or intellectual property rights.

My game is a mod – can I still submit it to Steam Greenlight?

Yes, you can submit your mod to Steam Greenlight, but in order to be launched on Steam you will need to have a full engine license in place for your game. If you are a Source engine mod, we can work with you on this piece, but for other engines you will need to work with them directly.

What systems must my game run on?

To remain in Steam Greenlight and qualify for distribution via Steam, your game must at least run on a Windows PC. You can also be developing for any other platform you like, but we are only able to support PC, Mac and Linux releases at this time.


How are games ranked on Steam Greenlight? How do I know how well my game is doing?

Games are ranked by the number of up-votes from the community. Once your game is submitted, you will see data on how your game is performing relative to other games in Steam Greenlight.

How many votes does a game need to get selected?

The specific number of votes doesn't matter as much as relative interest in a game compared with other games in Steam Greenlight—we need customers to help us prioritize which games they want to see made available on Steam.

We're going to be reaching out to developers as we see their games getting traction regardless of whether they have achieved a specific number of votes or are sitting 1st or 2nd place at any given time. We are most interested in finding the games that people want, not requiring them to hit a specific number of votes.

How can I get more votes for my game?

We recommend reading through our tips for marketing on Steam Greenlight.

If my game is accepted through Steam Greenlight, can I give my previous customers keys for the Steam version?

Once your game is accepted for distribution on Steam, we will give you as many keys for your game as you want at no cost.

How often will Valve be selecting games from Steam Greenlight?

We will regularly be selecting games from Steam Greenlight, based on our bandwidth to ship games on Steam.

What happens after my game gets Greenlit?

Once your game is Greenlit, we will reach out to you to setup an NDA, get a build of your game and start talking through the process of launching your game on Steam.

What if someone else has posted my game?

If your game has been posted by someone else and you wish for it to be taken down, please visit www.valvesoftware.com/legal.html and follow the instructions under 'Claims of Copyright Infringement'.

What if my game never gets accepted?

Currently your game will remain on Steam Greenlight unless you decide to take it down.

What if I don’t want to announce my game early but I still want it to be on Steam?

Once a game is accepted through Steam Greenlight, it doesn’t take long to get it launched on Steam, so feel free to hold off on posting to Steam Greenlight until you’re ready to announce.

Are there resources to help me market my game?

There is a Steam Greenlight Widget-creator where you can make a widget to post on your website. We also have logos that you can use in conjunction with marketing about your game on Greenlight.

How early in development can I post my game?

There are two categories in Steam Greenlight: One for mostly-finished games seeking distribution via Steam and one for early builds and concepts that are simply seeking feedback from the community. You can choose the right category for your title when you post.

Can more than one steam account be associated with a greenlight submission?

Yes, once you have filled in the basic information for your Greenlight entry, you can add additional Contributors.

  1. If you are just creating your item and have entered basic information, click "View item" in the upper-right corner to go to your submission in Greenlight.
  2. Then, on your item’s page in Greenlight, under "Owner Controls" in the right-hand column, there is a link to "Add/remove Contributors"
  3. Click the link and select anyone from your Steam Friends list to add as contributors.
  4. The selected friend(s) will receive an e-mail notifying them of the action and asking them to accept the invitation to be a contributor.
  5. Once they accept, they will have the ability to edit links, post announcements, and delete comments.

I'm not submitting a game, I'm submitting Software. Is there anything special I should know?

Submitting software is exactly like submitting a game. The submission process is the same, and customers will be able to vote on it just like they do for games. The business terms are also the same.

What carries over from concept to regular submission?

Greenlight does not currently support switching between concept, game, and software categories. If you have an entry in one category and need it to be in a different category, you will need to create a new entry under the desired category.




Steam Business Terms:

Who sets the price for my game on Steam?

Pricing is very title specific, and we’ve got a lot of data and experience to help you decide on what the best price is for your title. We’ll work with you to figure out pricing.

What is your revenue split?

We don’t discuss our revenue split publicly. Once your game goes through Steam Greenlight, we will get to those details.


Do the steam royalties apply before or after VAT/country specific taxes?

Taxes are removed before calculating royalties.

What is the common payment interval and can we group transactions to minimize banking fees?

We make monthly statements and payments.

What other fees come out of my revenue share?

There are some specific adjustments made depending on such things as fraud and returns and these are outlined more fully in our distribution agreement that we will send to you if your game is going on Steam. We do not make deductions for marketing or bandwidth.

Do you require exclusivity for titles you sell on Steam?

We think you should get your game in front of as many people as you can, therefore we do not require or recommend exclusivity on titles.

What are my marketing options on Steam?

We do not sell any of our marketing on Steam. We will work with you to determine the best marketing plan for your title.

Are Steamworks features required for distribution on Steam?

Many of our Steamworks features are popular with customers – like Steam Cloud support and Achievements. While we recommend that you include them in your games, they are not required.





How do I get access to Steamworks?

You can download the Steamworks SDK, view documentation, and compile with a test appID by visiting https://partner.steamgames.com and accepting the SDK Access Agreement. Developers wishing to integrate the Steamworks SDK with their own games or applications still need to first be Greenlit and provided with an appID.

My game is in early development stages, don’t I need to plan for the SDK integration now?

The Steamworks SDK is easy to integrate, so you can wait until your game is further along in the development cycle before worrying about it. In the meantime, you can download the Steamworks SDK, view documentation, and compile with a test appID by visiting https://partner.steamgames.com and accepting the SDK Access Agreement.

Do you take XNA, Java, Flash or Adobe Air games?

Yes, we accept all four types on Steam. Flash games need to be wrapped so that they launch from a stand-alone executable.

What language is the Steamworks API available in?

The Steamworks API is written in C++.

Do you have wrappers for games developed in .NET, Java, or Actionscript?

We do not have any wrappers available as part of the SDK.

Do you have a DRM solution for Java, .NET, Flash and Adobe Air?

We currently do not have a way to DRM these titles.

What engines does Steamworks support?

Steamworks is written in C++ and can be integrated into any engine. Currently, no wrappers are provided for languages other than C++. There are no specific engine requirements for submitting your game to Steam or using Steamworks.



Sounds to me like any additional information isn't relevant until the game has actually been Greenlit by the Steam community. And afterwards the specific questions are likely too technical for anyone but a representative for the dev team to handle anyway. In other words, there is no harm in putting the game up for Greenlighting, even just for the added exposure. If negotiations break down, no one is forced to do anything.


I mean, I am willing to email some Valve people on TDM's behalf, but damn if I know what to ask.

Edited by IHaveReturned
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Sounds to me like any additional information isn't relevant until the game has actually been Greenlit by the Steam community.


Not true, they have a contact page on greenlight where you can ask about things related to greenlight, which seems to not matter whether your a developer or not.


My guess is that we will be able to put The Dark Mod on steam, but it wouldnt work through the updater since steam itself provides a (good, this is just an opinion though.) way to update games, and when installing new games it makes a folder in the steamapps folder called "common" for whatever game you are installing. I think this just basically means that we would have to just update the files for the game in a different way than through the updater with steam, and it shouldn't be too complicated to manage if you ask me.


Putting Steamworks into the game however would require a coder, judging from the FAQ, which that makes sense. However I know that just because a game is on steam that doesnt mean it HAS to have steamworks features. Also-however steamworks is considered a user enhancing experience (or something like that, i know its certainly nice to have achievements personally) so it would probably be nice to have someone who is able to code that stuff in, eventually.

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It is not true that additional information is unnecessary because there is a way to contact Valve? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Good information anyway. You should link the contact page for reference.


As for Steamworks, yes, there seem to be some additional work involved, but since it is clearly optional, and so simple they refuse to even permit it until you are successfully greenlit, it seems like an afterthought indeed.

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I'm happy this is still being discussed. IMO it would bring a lot of attention on TDM, both from players and mappers (i often read this mod is short on mappers). As has been said, Steam doesn't have to be mandatory, but another way of distribution, and, more importantly, hyping.

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Ok. Now it is clear to me that there will be no Kickstarter for St.Russel or something like it.

But i think that bringing TdM on kickstarer will not cost any money and will take maybe 1 hour of your time.


If you want to know about Greenlight read this story from another group of developers.

I will copy it here so you dont need to visit other sites but there is some cute pictures on source.


How It All Began: Submission Process in the Pre-Greenlight World

Steam is the biggest online game distribution platform and for indie game developers it has always been sort of a Holy Grail – many dreamt and keep dreaming of putting their game on Steam. I was not an exception and as we were one year developing our game, Legends of Eisenwald, I started collecting information about how to get on Steam. It turned out quite a depressing task. I started to search Internet for tips and experiences of indie companies that managed to get their game on Steam. There were quite a few stories of initial rejection, of a long wait for a response and many others along with a few stories of success. Perplexed I decided to actually see how the process looks like.

It turned out that a submission process is very simple – there is a short form where you need to provide a name for your game, some description, link to a game build, some press quotes if you have any. And with a simple submit button it was supposed to be sent to people at Valve. Well, I really hoped our game would get someone’s attention there but I had a lot of fears at the same time. What if our game gets rejected? What if they don’t respond for months? If rejected once, is it even possible that my game will be accepted the second time around? And these thoughts kept circulating in my head. There seemed to be no way to contact Valve other than through that submission form. Later I learned it’s possible to talk to them at a computer fair like GamesCom or PAX but still, often you need an appointment and that seemed also quite a challenge. There were a few articles that I found very helpful, one of them was on Gamasutra by Scott Tykoski.

Greenlight Inception

Another year passed, it was 2012, we just finished our campaign at Kickstarter and started to think about submitting our game through this form. But then on July 9 came an announcement that Steam Greenlight will be released on August 30.

First I was upset, I had to rethink all our plans. But the more I read the news about this new way of getting games to Steam the more I liked what I saw. And I realized right away that equally to Kickstarter, Greenlight might become one of the greatest things happened to indie game developers – because it provides a platform to reach more players for our game. Actually, this seems like a good road for developers: start making a game, make an alpha, then via Kickstarter and Greenlight into the release.

Steam launched as announced and I was overwhelmed with the amount of games it featured. I spend several hours each day voting for games, some in my team too and that seemed so new and fun! For the first four days it was possible to see the individual rankings for each game (screenshot) but then Valve took them away. I think they might have figured that open rankings give popular games more views making the process less fair to other games. The rankings looked like this:

# Name Views Favorites Percent View/Fav Ratio Collections


Project Zomboid







Slender: Source







No More Room in Hell










































Heroes & Generals







Cry of Fear







Project Giana













Greenlight Pipeline

Then once a month about 10-15 games were greenlit. We were working very hard on our game and tried to learn what had to be done to be accepted at Steam. That initial splash of votes was really great yet it gave me fears about our game not doing so well. A couple of things were clear though – I saw that projects receive a lot of votes and exposure in the first days but then the votes declined. Also, projects with some promotion were definitely doing better than games that were just put out there with just hopes of being seen by many people.

And in December we launched our Greenlight campaign. We sent our press releases, invited our backers from Kickstarter to vote for us and we were doing really well – we got into top 100 games in just 6 days. Back then the statistics of a project owners looked like this:

Basically, it’s the same information then the rankins in the first four days but available only to developers regarding their own game but no other games are seen.

The feedback in comments on our game was overwhelmingly positive – I heard about other projects when people were writing bad or even mean stuff about games but luckily it didn’t happen to us. I deleted just a few spam comments and a few comments that were using expletives. We answered a lot of questions, kept posting updates and news and it was really a lot of fun.

Greenlight Evolution

Then in January Greenlight evolved once more and statistics became much more informative, including at least some anonymous comparison to other projects (even though sometimes if there was a game that was launched after us, we could figure out by looking how many days the game was on greenlight. Here are examples of how the statistics looked for Legends of Eisenwald back in January:

After good first month the amount of votes we were receiving kept declining. We were trying to do some promotion but since the game wasn’t really polished at that moment it was not an easy thing to do. There were some articles in press about our game, sometimes a video preview and the result of all those things was visible, votes would spike a bit that day.

But still, despite low amount of visitors we kept climbing higher. When a new batch of games was accepted, we would get significantly higher because mostly games ahead of us were accepted. Sometimes very popular games like Papers Please would overtake us and many other games but still, most games display similar to ours dynamic.

At the beginning of April we were in top 20 games, and after the next batch we got into top 10. Where we stayed until we got greenlit on May 17th. By this time Steam started greenlighting games more frequent but would take a bit less and we felt very happy.

Here are our stats one week before we were Greenlit:


Happy Birthday Greenlight

Valve kept accepting games and on Aug 28 accepted biggest batch ever, 100 games! Which brings the number of greenlit games to 176 and 61 released. Over 1300 games will still compete for the votes of players but it remains to be seen how many games will be accepted next. I don’t think another 100 will come anytime soon. Also, to celebrate, Steam put all released indie games on sale, nice move.

So, why Steam Greenlight is actually good for developers?

I read many articles with developers complaining of not being accepted. With over 1300 existing games now it is probably hard for Valve to accept them all. They are making a good effort but competition is healthy. And they promise to increase throughput in the future, so if you have a game put it out! Who knows, it might work faster then you think.

Greenlight is not a perfect system, for players it’s not easy at all to dig through so many titles. I saw a few who said they voted for everything (as did I) but it’s a minority. And Valve could do some incentives for voting and I am sure it will happen. In my mind, Valve is a company that goes and experiments with things and it’s much better than being stuck in one particular business model.

Same thing applies to Greenlight. It’s not perfect but it’s a giant leap from what the submission process used to be. Here are some cool things why I think Greenlight is great:

There is no risk of immediate rejection;

It is a new platform to display a game to many potential customers. When we were greenlit, we had 115k visitors, 47k yes votes, and that’s a big amount;

It’s possible to track the effect of a promotion campaign by looking at the statistics (the more press the better, of course);

In case of mistakes or even PR nightmares it’s no rejection and you just have to keep working towards your goal, it’s a delay;

You receive a feedback about your game, an honest and brutal sometimes, yet very helpful;

Valve asks developers for feedback on how to improve service and implements new things (look how the statistics evolved);

Direct contact for developers with Valve in Greenlight Dev group which was virtually impossible before Greenlight.

Negative complaints about Greenlight are mostly about games not having enough visibility and that’s definitely can be improved. But at the same time Valve cannot do everything, it’s a job of developers as well to promote their game.

Possible improvements from discussions I participated in the forums and in Greenlight developers group:

Improve interface of the Steam store page to increase visibility of Greenlight projects (random displaying of some projects is one solution);

Create again top 10, 20, 50 or 100 lists – this will be mostly helpful for games already in good position but at the same time it will give more press coverage to Greenlight;

Give access to Steamworks SDK if a game enters top50 or top100 and stays there for some time.

I am positive Greenlight will keep evolving and Valve will do other innovative and fun things with it and their other projects.

Thank you for your attention, I hope it was interesting and/or helpful, and would love to hear your comments!


Edited by Praudmur
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If you love TDM make an FM! Make an FM! You can do it!! Anybody can.

The tutorial can walk you through the whole thing, and all of us are here to help.

This is an open invitation to everybody. If you love TDM, make an FM.

(Yes I realize I need to be taking my own advice. :blush: )

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What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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Making FMs is great but it's not for everyone. We'd be quite happy if the people wanting to donate money spent five minutes talking up TDM on the net instead. Find a gaming forum and post about how much you enjoyed TDM. Find a Youtube video and comment on it. Find a mission thread here and tell the author of your favourite mission how much you enjoyed it. All of those are better than money for a community-driven project like this.

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However, making an FM is also cool! :laugh:

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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