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Dishonored Webpisode for game pre-release


Ladro

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Thanks for the insight. Funny thing is that there are two kinds of reviews: Those that criticize weak AI, and those that praise the very clever AI. I think that this is a clear indication of who played on Hard/Very Hard and who played on Easy.

My Eigenvalue is bigger than your Eigenvalue.

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And yet again this will be another game I wont be buying new, because the developer has forced the use of steam. I will wait for a no-steam crack for it and then by that time the price should have dropped.

 

But that said the dev is Bethesda, the odds are the game is infested with bugs which will mean no purchase untill patch 1.7 or higher if at all.

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Mmm... so, no light gem? The AI can see in complete darkness? Is there any complete darkness? (or near-darkness)

 

Darkness helps, but only to a certain extent. If you're up close to your enemy then the effect of darkness is near nothing on Hard or Very Hard, if you're far away then it can delay detection enough to get to a better hiding spot.

 

That being said, you are a lot faster and more agile in this game than you tend to be in Thief and similar games, so you can take advantage of obstacles and avoid line-of-sight much more easily. Also, leaning is more effective and doesn't expose you as much as in Thief, which means you can easily see around obstacles while hiding without giving yourself away.

 

If I remember correctly, Robert Yang tweeted a day or two ago that "Dishonored is less about the light gem and more about the "height gem"" and I think that sums it up pretty nicely. Stealth in this game at close range is more about line of sight, using clutter, and going above or below your enemy.

 

Despite this, something I noticed as I played is that the distribution of "safe zones" in a room in Dishonored is strikingly similar to patterns used in Thief 2 and it almost seems to use a similar "level building theory" when you look at the rooms from a top-down perspective, except Dishonored uses clutter and vertical elements as "safe zones" instead of shadows.

 

 

But that said the dev is Bethesda, the odds are the game is infested with bugs which will mean no purchase untill patch 1.7 or higher if at all.

 

Dishonored is NOT developed by Bethesda, it's only published by Bethesda.

It is actually developed by Arkane Studios, the developers of Arx Fatalis and Dark Messiah of Might and Magic.

It's also built on Unreal Engine 3, and that engine is widely used enough that I think most decent PCs can run Unreal Engine 3 games without much trouble by now.

 

It's also relatively clean of bugs, or at least there haven't been that many complaints on most forums I've seen compared to other PC games of similar popularity.

 

I can't really speak for everyone, but I haven't had a single crash or noticeable gameplay-affecting bug during my first run through the game.

In fact, the most technical trouble the game gave me at all was that I had to go into a config file and edit a number to get the FOV to go over 85 (the game has an FOV slider but it only goes up to 85) and that only took me a minute at most.

 

You are correct that it is a Steam game though, if you object to that then that would be a valid reason to wait.

Edited by Professor Paul1290
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It has leaning? Great! Hope that's included on the Xbox version. Carefully positioned safe zones like piles of crates? Fine. It sounds like the darkness thing is more realistic than Thief and Dark Mod (though it helps gameplay imo for the player to have better sight in shadows than the AI.) Re-reading earlier in this thread reminds me that digi and purah had a hand and an influence so there is no doubt it is Thief-influenced. Looking forward to this more and more. That's bad actually. It's usually best to start with low expectations. I'm getting more interested in this than Thief 4 at the moment.

 

Yeah, that thing about Steam and other PC 'controls' has put me off PC games and is one reason I reluctantly only get Xbox games these days. Not that I get that many.

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Don't want to derail the thread too much, but what do people have against Steam? I see it as a great way to get games delivered right to your PC, and they run a lot of sales so you can often get good stuff cheap. There's an offline mode so you don't need a full time internet connection to use it. What's the main complaint about it? I've never had an issue so I guess I just don't get it. :wacko:

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It's like the comment in the front-page feed... A lot of people instinctively don't like a company keeping its fingers in a game after they've bought it, and they'd rather just have it free & clean, like the old days when you bought a physical CD and, short of outright copying it, it was yours to do with as you pleased. Not that Steam is entirely like that, but people get that vibe from it. I guess, I don't know. It's a different issue from DRM really.

 

I don't have that much of an issue with it. For one thing, I'm in Thailand right now, so it's not like I have any other way to physically buy the game, least of all an English version, so for me the fact I can get it over Steam is not just convenient but a necessity.

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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Yeah, that's my take on it too. I don't like being controlled by people I don't trust (which is basically all of commerce.) We know from repeated experience that commerce will generally try to take any advantage, will withhold any information they can, will divert, mislead, confuse, in short, do anything legal (mostly) they can to maximise their profit. Indeed, it might be said that they must do that in order to survive in a free market. It's the system that is evil but right now I can't think of a better one (except in the abstract.)

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Our merchants and master manufacturers complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price, and thereby lessening the sale of their goods both at home and abroad. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people.

 

Commerce, which ought naturally to be, among nations as among individuals, a bond of union and friendship, has become the most fertile source of discord and animosity. The capricious ambition of kings and ministers has not, during the present and the preceding century, been more fatal to the repose of Europe, than the impertinent jealousy of merchants and manufacturers. The violence and injustice of the rulers of mankind is an ancient evil, for which, I am afraid, the nature of human affairs can scarce admit of a remedy. But the mean rapacity, the monopolizing spirit of merchants and manufacturers, who neither are, nor ought to be, the rulers of mankind, though it cannot perhaps be corrected, may very easily be prevented from disturbing the tranquility of anybody but themselves.

 

People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.

 

As soon as the land of any country has all become private property, the landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed, and demand a rent even for its natural produce.

 

All of these quotes are from Adam Smith, usually cited for his commerce-friendly views. It seems human nature has not changed much.

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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Getting back on topic, I'm actually starting a new playthrough right away.

 

So far, my only real significant gripe with the game is that the default difficulty is too easy, and you really have to go for Hard or Very Hard before the game really becomes challenging.

 

Part of it might be that you're extremely agile in this game compared to Thief. Corvo might not any of Garrett's "magic shadow invisibility" but he does have "magic ninja acrobat skill" to make up for it, though perhaps a bit too much. They really crank up the security and guard density later in the game to try to offset this, but you do feel a bit too agile sometimes.

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I'm a great believer in social evolution though so one day I'm sure, it won't be like this.

 

Meanwhile, back on topic, Yes, this is a fun game and quite Thiefy. Stealth is, I think, better than Oblivion and Skyrim but not as good as Thief and Dark Mod. Using stealth, eg, to pass by rather than fight) is harder because shadows give less protection but unlike Oblivion and Skyrim, it is designed for stealth. There is a reasonable sense of freedom. I've finally got out of the sewers and met Samuel and have the option to look around before continuing with him. Not sure how far I could go though and I'm not inclined to try.

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I'm really enjoying it. The stealth is really challenging - though I've just got the possession power so that should open up new possibilities.

 

Definitely Thief-inspired - the only major difference is probably shadows being less useful (if at all - I've not decided yet.) The secret book lever felt familiar and when I heard "Must have been rats, then," then that clinched it.

 

The sections are small but take a decent time to complete - perhaps because we're so used to Thief and Dark Mod we do them quicker. And, of course, the sections connect together.

 

Rope arrows are replaced by the mini-teleport jump thing. Zoom doesn't work on the Xbox but I don't know if that requires a tool like a spyglass before it works?

 

Anyone find the combo to Dr. Galvani's safe? I'm guessing he's got it with him so maybe I'll find it later.

 

Gameplay is so very like Thief and TDM - it's the closest I've ever seen any game. Hope it does well.

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Yes, zooming is an upgrade you'll need to buy first.

 

But the game is tremendously easy if you stay away from the ground, Fidcal. The stealth just feels harder because you don't have a lightgem and never really know whether enemies will detect you or not. But since they have virtually no vertical field of view, you can avoid detection easily by roofing.

 

I had just bought the boots' stealth upgrade, but I had to reload as it completely gets you rid any running sounds and I would like to maintain at least a little challenge. It's easy enough as it is, just blinking behind the enemy and taking him out instantly.

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SPOILERS AHEAD.

 

 

 

 

Yeah but by stealth I meant trying to avoid kills. In practice I've finished up killing loads because the stealth is tough. In the distillery I managed to get through the main warehouse/factory but had to kill the two workers downstairs. I think the game needs more niches to hide in. When I finally finished I couldn't get out but in the end had to run for it with bursts of speed until I got back through the door to the other section (where Granny Rags is) they didn't follow me.

 

Also, when I entered the distillery, I gave up on the little store room with the rats to the left of the entrance. I tried loads of times. What I did was open the door then jump back quickly up to the roof. From there I shots an incendiary bolt at the rats to draw the gang over to kill them. After they had walked away grumbling "must have been rats," I slipped down and into there but could never get out without one of them spotting me. There's just nowhere to hide.

 

BTW rat swarms are not saved with gamesaves - they are respawned even if you kill them then gamesave. if you have to reload then the swarm is restored again. Bummer.

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Yeah but by stealth I meant trying to avoid kills.

That's what I meant, too. I only kill if I am surprised and I try to avoid choking guards as much as possible. I love it to drop behind a guard, grab his coins and blink back up on some rafters. :) Only in areas with little hiding places I strategically take out some guards by choking them.

 

Also, when I entered the distillery, I gave up on the little store room with the rats to the left of the entrance.

Just lure them out and blink away. They will find some taffers / corpses to attack most of the time.

 

By the way, I have Blink, Timebending and agility on level 2 now and that's pretty cool for stealth play. If there's trouble, you can always get out with Timebending.

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