Community "Unusual Gameplay Contest"

[Sotha]

Little status update.

 

I'm almost done with detailing and TylerVocal helped me with some (awesome) voice acting which are now mostly in place.

 

Stuff that remains:

RIT networks.

AI.

Objectives.

Locations, world sounds, ambient music.

Loot.

One challenging scripting thingy.

Mission map creation.

Some art drawing.

 

I'm not giving this any release date, though. RL is busy and I only have occasionally a hour or two to spend on mapping.

[DeTeEff]

Fantastic that you can have such discipline to map in "layers". I mean first all geometry, then light, then sounds, AI etc...I must complete almost everything per scene to get an idéa on how it gonna look/sound...Sometimes I just want to give up on my mission...

[Sotha]

Yes, I can see that it can become tedious if you require yourself to completely finish a scene before moving on. The big problem is that approach is that if the next scene needs you to do something in the previous one, you will lose a lot of work as you need to refit the old scene. You will not make progress as you need to fix something you did eariler.

 

As you know, mapping is not about making a single scene (like a painting), but a series of scenes (like a movie). Plans may change. That's why it is a good idea to work in a flow where you

1) just build first blocky room geometry. Find a good basic room size which is in good proportions. Lay rooms where they should be.

2) Then you add the details.

3) And then finally everything else.

 

Of course, a big requirement is that you have a plan what rooms are in your location. You can even build just floors first (not walls) to see what your general floorplan will be.

 

If you feel you are burning out, why not giving it a try? Promise yourself that you will have the entire mission sealing room network built first. Then when that is ready, you just drop in the details. If you use similar size scale in all of the boxy rooms, and you build modular pieces, you could easily re-use pieces.

 

The main idea is: what you put into the map stays there, you shall not heavily rework areas (mild retouches are allowed). Every single addition in the map is progress and will not be taken away from you. This kind of though motivates a lot as you know you are not mapping "in circles" and are really making steady progress.

 

It is all about learning the workflow.

[Obsttorte]

One challenging scripting thingy.

If you need help with that just drop me a pm.

[Springheel]

I used to entirely finish individual scenes too, but I found that I didn't have much of a sense of progress that way. I'd have a great set of rooms, but the rest of the map wasn't done and it felt daunting knowing that.

 

Now, I try to do it more in 'passes', like modelling. First, get the basic, blocky geometry done. Second, start adding more details--important patches, trim, major props, basic lights, doors, etc. At this point you can run through your entire map and get a good feel for how it will play.

 

Third, start adding functional details--AI and pathnodes, monsterclip, visportals. At this point the mission is functional, which is a big boost to motivation. The end doesn't feel so far off.

 

After that comes aesthetic details...minor props, artistic lights, conversations, decals, sounds. This is also where I put "cool but not necessary" effects, like interesting switches, or custom textures, or RITs. You can continue to add these for as long as it's enjoyable, knowing that the mission already works so you can stop and release it any time if you start getting burned out.

 

Finally, I save readable text, objectives and briefing for last, as they need to accurately reflect the finished version of the map.

[SeriousToni]

Now, I try to do it more in 'passes'

 

I personally think, that this is a good way of making a map if you know what you're doing. But if you build your first map it is somehow better, to do it room for room. Because it is not good if you spent hours on creating the whole building in basic geometry and then you notice that the rooms are far too big and there are even many leaks on different spots because the room transitions aren't sealed properly.

 

Building room for room is for beginners and building phase by phase is for advanced mappers, imho.

[Moonbo]

Yeah, I have to confess to building my map section by section, if only because it's easier to know if you're making a mistake. It does make for more linear-ish levels though.

[Obsttorte]

I personally think, that this is a good way of making a map if you know what you're doing. But if you build your first map it is somehow better, to do it room for room. Because it is not good if you spent hours on creating the whole building in basic geometry and then you notice that the rooms are far too big and there are even many leaks on different spots because the room transitions aren't sealed properly.

 

Building room for room is for beginners and building phase by phase is for advanced mappers, imho.

I fully agree with that. If you have no plan you can't make one. (Don't take this too serious)

[Sotha]

+1, with one more addition:

This is one more reason why new mappers should start with a small mission.

[Sir Taffsalot]

I still tend to do things room by room or street by street as is sometimes the case. I think of each part like a painting. I do them individually however they are just snapshots of a much bigger picture.

 

I do however map out my entire maps by pencil and paper first. I have a draw at work thats filled with maps I've drawn on my lunch break.

[demagogue]

Now, I try to do it more in 'passes', like modelling.

 

The original tutorial that came with dromed on the T2 CD (& possibly T:G?) recommended this and called it the "stepwise refinement" method. It was the actual method they built the games with.

[Springheel]

I recommend it all the time to my art students...you shouldn't focus too much on one specific area, doing a lot of detail, until you loosely sketch in the entirety to make sure the proportions are correct. Then you work out the contours, then the shading, then the textures, etc.

 

I just never thought to apply it to mapping too.

[Obsttorte]

I experienced that the "stepwise refinement" as demagogue called it is indeed a muchmore efficient way to work. But in most cases I tend to use a midway of both approaches. I guess it's because I'd never really made detailed plans before I started working, as I tend to improvise a lot. (And, well, it's a hobby, so I can take all time I need).

[Jinix]

My two cents:

 

I have an answer to this time thing...

Why not offically have a contest every 3 months (spring,summer,fall,winter) ignoring when or how long is spent working on it. ?

 

Everyone will then know when a contest will start and how long they have to finish it, or to get ready it for the next contest if they miss the first deadline.

 

Within the next few months I think you will see TDM becoming more well known and played, especially after T4 stirs up more thiefy interests... and probably more TDM mission makers will come this way to write more missions.

 

I guess it's illegal or something to offer prizes, but that would inspire more FM makers.

[Sotha]

Just wanted to give a small status update (this is *not* a april 1st prank.)

 

Got nice extra time to spend with my WIP during the easter. Made good progress.

 

All scripting is done. (There were some tricky stuff, which I need to test a few times that they are working solidly.)

All conversations are there. (Probably fine tune and test if Grayman's "running AI" suggestion works)

All AI and most RIT networks are in place (gotta test & tune them still. This mission uses RITs heavily. I don't think a single AI will be on static routes. Players are bound to be caught pants down with the AI if they aren't careful. You will never be completely safe.)

 

Next:

Monsterclipping (funny thing that I monsterclip AFTER preparing the RIT networks...)

Locations (ambients, world sound speakers and such. Yup, audioworld is very important in a TDM FM. Must spend some time thinking how to get it right.)

Loot (Not much loot in this one.)

Objectives (Not too many objectives either. Pretty basic stuff.)

Got an idea for a Special Location to please certain player types. Will need to see if I get motivated to implement it. Small addition, but might be fun.

Testing

 

Don't start holding your breath waiting for this map, though. Available mapping time is gonna decrease heavily now after easter holidays. But great progress was made!

[Melan]

The original tutorial that came with dromed on the T2 CD (& possibly T:G?) recommended this and called it the "stepwise refinement" method. It was the actual method they built the games with.

My main issue with stepwise is that it bores me if I build my missions that way. I want to see nice scenes to feel like I am progressing. Blocking out the outline of a level or part of a level is one thing, but afterwards, I just can't bring myself to do it.

[stumpy]

I always use the thief02 ai model to make sure the area's in game are the right size for when the player goes through the same area, but a few times I forgotten to remove the thief02 ai and been killed by him when testing stuff later on. due to player not getting there weapons until all the rooms are the right size.

[DeTeEff]

Just to make it clear that I'm still onto this...

 

[nbohr1more]

YES!!!

[SeriousToni]

Whoa! That looks like A LOT of work!

Nice!

[Diego]

Whenever I see these screenshots for upcoming FMs I remember that video of the guy that was tased during John Kerry's speech. Why? because I think to myself "don't you tease me, man!" and that comes out exactly like the guy in the video

Edited April 8, 2013 by Diego

[DeTeEff]

Whoa! That looks like A LOT of work!

Nice!

 

Thanks. It's the first map I started and thus the mission has been in the works since 2010...I made the biggest mistake any aspiring mapper can make; start ambitious!

[Springheel]

Damn, that looks fantastic. Love the organic feel!

[demagogue]

Yeah it looks like an appropriately shitty slum to live in.

 

 

 

 

(Edit: Which is to say it looks great. We're collectively getting better at making these streets.)

[Melan]

Yeah it looks like an appropriately shitty slum to live in.

Might I remind the author that there is, in fact, a horseshit model in the mod?