Opinions about maps

[Sotha]

Just wanted to add something after staring at Melan's map for a while.

 

A map is also an immersion window.

 

It is fun to examine a map and wonder what does the location look like in reality, then compare your impression when you reach thr area.

 

If the map presents some connection from the game area to the area outside the map (ie. the locations mapper has not mapped and player cannot go to), the location will feel more real and alive.

 

Like Jesps' monastery mission that featured an area map that showed surroundings of the monastery. Useless in gameplay terms, but lovely and adds so much more the immersion!

[Springheel]

Automaps for TDM are possible one way or another.

 

Maybe we should start another poll about those.

 

I'm not really fond of auto-maps. Feels a bit "gamey" to me, like the game is doing my thinking for me. That's assuming we're talking about the blue "you are here" glow effect from T2. A map that started off blank and filled in areas you had already gone to (as if the player was drawing a map of the areas he passed through) might be neat and appropriate for exploration-style missions.

[Oldjim]

I hated the "you are here" glow effect in T2 and I always found the maps were fairly useless as they had not enough detail to be of any help

Now if we could have a feature where you could add a marker to maps that would really help in remembering where a room was that you had to get back to

[Melan]

If there is a function that adds extra stuff to a map, it should be possible to trigger it when the player walks through a trigger texture somewhere in the map.

[Baddcog]

Maybe we should start another poll about those.

 

I'm not really fond of auto-maps. Feels a bit "gamey" to me, like the game is doing my thinking for me. That's assuming we're talking about the blue "you are here" glow effect from T2. A map that started off blank and filled in areas you had already gone to (as if the player was drawing a map of the areas he passed through) might be neat and appropriate for exploration-style missions.

 

I agree, the glowy bit isn't needed, but having it draw out as you go as if you are drawing it yourself would be awesome. Sometimes it's good to have a map of a place you are casing, the rest of the time it's just good to be able to keep track of where you've been/empty spots in a place you are robbing.

[elwing]

I love maps, but I only like them when they are approximate sketches (with missing rooms, details) and only shows in detail one or two area of interest, like sneaky place to enter a mansion... from what I remember T2 had some really nice maps like that.

[Obsttorte]

Maybe we should start another poll about those.

Added

[Theothesnopp]

Instead of using that trope, just say that the player cased the joint (if the story allows that much time).

 

Another possibility would be to include a map as an object you can find somewhere in the mission.

 

 

"Another possibility would be to include a map as an object you can find somewhere in the mission."

 

" . if its a mansion, warehouse or castle etc i believe the player should find it in the mission or in the previous mission (Campaign)"

[Tels]

For me it really depends. On a maze-like map, I'd like an automap, on a complicated mansion probably not (the joy of getting lost and finding your way out). So it will probably be up to the mapper, anyway, as we can't set a standard when everyone wants something different, anyway.

[Springheel]

The votes seem to be pretty firmly on the side of wanting a map.

[Sotha]

The votes seem to be pretty firmly on the side of wanting a map.

 

Mappers! Bask in the holy wisdom of the community!

[Tels]

I think the point here is that users want a map - because they can then still ignore it. If you get no map, then well, you are screwed from the begin if you'd need the map. It's probably more of a "Well, if I'd ever need a map, I'd better have one". Usually you only find out that you need one when you are lost.

[Springheel]

I can't speak for anyone else, but the first thing I do is look to see if I have a map, and if I do, I use it right away to plan ahead. It's also useful if I get lost, but that's not the main purpose. When I was playing In The North, I regularly found a dark corner, pulled out the maps, and planned out where I wanted to go next and the safest way to get there.

[Sotha]

I can't speak for anyone else, but the first thing I do is look to see if I have a map, and if I do, I use it right away to plan ahead. It's also useful if I get lost, but that's not the main purpose. When I was playing In The North, I regularly found a dark corner, pulled out the maps, and planned out where I wanted to go next and the safest way to get there.

 

Me too! It is much more fun when you have some information on which you can base decisions where to go.

[Shaz]

As a player (of games in general, so not all my recommendations might be fitting for TDM as I have no experience modding), I find maps very helpful, as I'm often prone to getting turned around. It's not so important HOW I get the map, though. If it's a location I could know of beforehand, or it would be reasonable to find out the layout beforehand, then I feel I should start with at least a basic map. If knowing the location's layout would be helpful but not 'well duh of course I scoped the layout' then buying it from the shop would be nice (but please don't overcharge for the map unless doing so makes sense). If it's not in the shop, then being able to pick it up in-game relatively early in is also great.

 

I'm also a BIG fan of 'drawing the map in as I go along', if it's a brand new location I could never possibly get a map of beforehand, or of adding more detail to a basic map I had from the beginning. Whether this is the game itself updating my map, or me adding notes into it, (or both!) matters not, but I like map updating.

 

What I love most, however, is the automap highlight system. As I said in my very first sentence, I'm prone to getting turned around, and absolutely nothing helps me center myself and fit the layout into my brain as well as seeing the location I'm in highlight and change as I move around. It's by far what I miss the most on TDM maps.

[demagogue]

An automap option is one of those quintessential "up to the author" things IMO. If they realize some people will like it and some people really won't, and they're ok with that and want to do it anyway because it's their vision, then it's good for them to at least have the option. I mean the map generally is something the author already has to make on their own. I think it's worth someone putting together a prototype so an author can choose it if they want it for their FM.

 

Generally I'm pretty cool with letting authors do their own thing for peripheral things so different personalities come out in different FMs, even at the risk of a little confusion at the start of a new FM, if it's a smaller issue (like non-functional doors).

[someTaff]

If there is a nice looking map - great! If not - well maybe story itself dictates that no map is given. So it's up to fm maker IMHO. And a shop, not every fm has a shop. And if it is - why map should be there? What if an old accociate of mine gave me this map? Too many possible options wich adds to overall story, why hardcode map in shop?

 

Btw, is someone accually draw their own map's?))

Edited January 27, 2013 by someTaff

[Flanders]

Why resort to the glowing blue and yellow automaps of thief? Isn't it way more elegant to have a pointer (a cross symbol or the arm of a clock like the one that is used as a mouse cursor in the main menu) on the map indicating your position and direction?

[Flanders]

btw I cannot fill in the 2nd question of the poll, it says I already answered the poll. I answered the first question of the poll when that was the only question.

[jaxa]

Why resort to the glowing blue and yellow automaps of thief? Isn't it way more elegant to have a pointer (a cross symbol or the arm of a clock like the one that is used as a mouse cursor in the main menu) on the map indicating your position and direction?

 

Seems more difficult plus not all maps are drawn to scale.

[Flanders]

Seems more difficult

 

Not sure if its difficult, its been a while since i worked with guis. You'd need to somehow transfer the players location to the gui, could be either very simple or impossible .

[Obsttorte]

If you only want to mark the room the player currently is by a cross, it should be simplier, as long as you just want to mark the room as whole and not the detailed gps-evaluated position. The latter would be handable via the players position. The problem is that the map must be exactly scaled for such a purpose. Quite a bit hard to accomplish that if your map is hand-drawn.

 

You could also divide your rooms into smaller zones. This would make it possible to mark at least a bit more detailed. The question is if that is really neccessary if the room is not extremely large.

 

Btw.: With "room" I mean a closed area (could be also something outside, a street or whatever).

[Flanders]

Well a simple cross in the middle of the room where you're in looks better than the glowing colours of t2.

 

A map on scale is not that hard come on... If you draw it by hand then put a top view of your map under it and stay in between the lines. You know, like in kindergarten You can still make it look sketchy/rough or stylised if you want to.

[demagogue]

No matter what it is, the mapper is going to have to draw the marker to fit the map anyway. If it were highlighting, the mapper would have to draw out the boundaries. If it's a cross or symbol, the mapper should draw the cross. If they're already putting all the effort into a map anyway, it's not too much to have them do a little extra work to get an automap. That's why my recommendation was someone just make up a prototype and save it as a prefab that mappers can download and tweak to their needs if they want it.

[elwing]

Well a simple cross in the middle of the room where you're in looks better than the glowing colours of t2.

 

A map on scale is not that hard come on... If you draw it by hand then put a top view of your map under it and stay in between the lines. You know, like in kindergarten You can still make it look sketchy/rough or stylised if you want to.

it's not hard at all, but the point is that I prefer a lot having hand drawn map with scale errors, missing rooms and few details, as if it was quiquely drawn by someone just to show a specific entrance or treasure location... perfect maps and GPS like tracking is just ridiculous in that universe

Edited January 29, 2013 by elwing