Thief 4 is trash.

[jtr7]

..............

Edited March 6, 2014 by jtr7

[Xarg]

Not following the game for 4 years like a zombie makes you a second class citizen in the city of opinions? Good to know. Oh and, it is just a game, it's not a religious experience.

[Airship Ballet]

If the problem an individual has with it is at the point of interface, for one, most of the rest is unreachable and can only be experienced 2nd-hand

 

Not sure what you mean specifically but there are plenty of games I can't play thanks to Monochromacy (team-based games where distinguishing features are color-based, puzzles with color-based elements, so on) and Narcolepsy (usually anything scary, always ones with jump scares). That's not the game's fault, it's just unfortunate for me.

 

you lack context, and it's the context that makes it all make complete sense to another living it out, inescapably.

 

What context is that? Don't know what you mean again.

 

Thief was a revelation.

 

Tenchu and Metal Gear Solid came out in the same year, and earlier than Thief. Even before 1998, stealth wasn't unheard of.

 

Thiaf doesn't approach that in any way, and becomes a pointless purchase or expense of time.

 

It must suck that you can't enjoy things that aren't revolutionary.

 

Mediocrity and stagnation are not nearly as valuable to be so concerned with protecting it.

 

Nobody's defending mediocrity or stagnation. They're what's condemning, and there are some redeeming features that can be appreciated despite them.

[RavenShore]

Thief 4 is like... Deadly Shadow having a very bad, bad acid trip.

[Nacht7]

Thief 4 is like... Deadly Shadow having a very bad, bad acid trip.

Nah, I still don't think even Deadly Shadows reached these kinds of levels of horrible.

A more applicable comparison would be to Dishonored, a game which suffers many of the same issues this new Thief does.

[RavenShore]

I would have to agree. The one thing about Deadly that forced me to never return was the broken movement. In hindsight, when compared to NuBoots, wow yeah! At least in Deadly you could still run and jump and explore things freely! Granted, Garrett seemed like he had a broken hip. I really do mean to go back actually and replay the trilogy, now that so much time has passed, and Abomination IV has finally ben released into the mindless masses.

Edited March 3, 2014 by RavenShore

[jtr7]

..............

Edited March 6, 2014 by jtr7

[RavenShore]

The Almighty Dollar and its reliance upon the lack thereof. Way to drive a sacred series of classic video games straight to the bottom of the bog of mediocre gaming detritus, as hauntingly predicted by several brave, but now long forgotten souls.

[jtr7]

................

Edited March 6, 2014 by jtr7

[ungoliant]

Even if McThiaf ends up with 1.2 billion customers served, they're still not going to meet SE's projected sales quotas.

[Xarg]

By the way, I hope you guys have enjoyed your unpaid volunteer work as advertisers for T4, your inability to stop talking about the damn thing for months on end, giving it limitless word of mouth and headspace (whether or not you paid for it or even played it), probably rivals anything EM/SE has done to promote the game. Thanks for not letting people forget about something that should have been rather easy to forget once the initial tempest blew over, you've done your corporate overlords proud.

[At0mic]

It's a new game, it's a big release, it's a sequel to a series that people here might just have a slight interest in. Of course it's gonna be talked about for months on end. I don't even give a shit about playing the game, but as I've gotten older I've realised something very important - it's very easy to just not enter threads that you have no interest in. It doesn't hurt, trust me.

[Springheel]

your inability to stop talking about the damn thing for months on end, giving it limitless word of mouth and headspace (whether or not you paid for it or even played it), probably rivals anything EM/SE has done to promote the game.

 

 

Right, because trashing the game = promoting it.

 

 

This thread keeps getting more bizarre all the time.

[Xarg]

@At0mic

 

Given the behaviour of some around here, that might eventually be all threads, as they seem to like invading other threads to keep the hate train well-fueled and rolling. I'm not going to abandon a forum I generally enjoy browsing on the off chance a thread I'm following might have the magic words spoken in it, which summon the demons of hatred, bile and being a giant fraud. Sometimes enough is enough, and the odd poster here and there needs to be reminded that reality exists outside of a box with a man in a hood on the front of it, but I'll assume you're new enough here that you missed the game's production values being compared to bigotry.

 

Please don't get me wrong, I think there's plenty wrong with this game too, but wouldn't it be more logical to flush it from memory? There's a short story I'd like to tell you, it's about a "game" called Big Rigs - Over the road racing. It's an objectively awful game. The AI doesn't function at all, there are virtually no textures, no collisions, no physics, and you can literally go 1 billion kph in reverse if you hold the button down long enough. It got a metacritic average of 8/100 from the professional critics. What happened? People kept talking about it, and other people saw this, said to themselves "no, it literally *cannot* be THAT bad, SURELY?!" and bought it to see for themselves. Profit undeserved, created by a negativity tidal wave keeping the subject in memory.

 

@Springheel - please see Big Rigs story above for an example of how negative publicity is still positive publicity. Though we'll never know exact figures, it seems likely to me that some number of T4 purchases will be from incredulous users who simply must see for themselves if it's really that bad. It's not bizarre at all.

Edited March 3, 2014 by Xarg

[jtr7]

....................

Edited March 6, 2014 by jtr7

[Xarg]

Oh I don't know about that, I wasn't taking you very seriously when you tried to equate the design of T4 with bigotry against the poor and disabled, but since you've purged all your old posts and I didn't quote you, people will have to look back and judge for themselves based on the context.

[nbohr1more]

There are threads like this all over the internet. Except here there is some vigil to keep T4's failings under the spotlight where

elsewhere we often see astro-turfing totally muddle the waters and eventually it becomes a I'm enjoying yada yada thread.

 

It's no big deal, we're pretty smart folks at these forums. We can see the poker players. (though there's a little zealotry here and there for sure).

 

Even better (however) is RPGCodex where they make it a game of spot-the-astroturfer and then they'll even capture them and put them on a rotisserie

to see if they can "explain" away the fire that's cooking them... I love that attitude. Rather than angrily barking at random strangers who offer neutral or

positive reviews they instead let them speak awhile and if they see any sure signs of an idiot marketer they will start steering the poster into

a bad bad place where all their previous talking points contradict their latest ones... It's pretty neat.

Edited March 10, 2014 by nbohr1more

[Xarg]

Even better (however) is RPGCodex where they make it a game of spot-the-astroturfer and then they'll even capture them and put them on a rotisserie to see if they can "explain" away the fire that's cooking them... I love that attitude. Rather than angrily barking at random strangers who offer neutral or positive reviews they instead let them speak awhile and if they see any sure signs of an idiot marketer they will start steering the poster into a bad bad place where all their previous talking points contradict their latest ones... It's pretty neat.

 

See, there's a stance I can get behind. I'm critical of the game myself. I've seen some of the images, the interviews, the pre-release gameplay segments and a bit of post-release gameplay as well. The game has issues, that is certainly for sure, jtr's been pointing them out for months, and a few technical ones have reared their heads recently, like the shadows and sound issues, and EM being rather resistant to the tweaking of a certain "feature" probably isn't helping relations with some of the audience.

 

That the game was going to suffer from AAA syndrome seemed a pretty foregone conclusion a while ago, and has come true, and while I get that some people will be moaning about the wasted potential (and rightly so), I feel that I have to object when it stops being a group of people sitting around the e-table that a forum thread represents, having a discussion, and starts to resemble the Crusades or the Martyr Brigades lining up to blow up on anyone who isn't toeing the party line. The T4 threads have been going pretty well for the last few days, so I've kept my nose out of them, but it seems today someone stuck their dick into the beehive and it's raging fury time again. People didn't get this wound up over MWO, and that's a far more egregious "violation" of what the franchise represented, and it's a 30 year old franchise so there are a LOT of people who've invested great time and energy in the universe.

 

I'll be perfectly happy to shut my face and bow out of this thread again once the zealots calm down, which I think everyone will be thankful for.

[Nacht7]

I would have to agree. The one thing about Deadly that forced me to never return was the broken movement. In hindsight, when compared to NuBoots, wow yeah! At least in Deadly you could still run and jump and explore things freely! Granted, Garrett seemed like he had a broken hip. I really do mean to go back actually and replay the trilogy, now that so much time has passed, and Abomination IV has finally ben released into the mindless masses.

 

Agreed. Body awareness is a make or break for all games, and it seems that for Thief, it's something to be avoided.

[Xarg]

Was the weird floating issue in TDS caused by the body awareness, or something else? It does seem a bit clunky and dumb that you can fall off things by leaning though, at least ArmA seems to have done that somewhat properly.

[darkside]

You guys are weird. Yes T4 is a disappointment, but when you think about it... we haven't seen a good release since forever! T4 is just following suit in the modern 'turn off your brain' era.

 

In reality, aside from it's many glaring mistakes, this is one of the better releases of late IMO. In fact it may even get a second playthrough.

Edited March 3, 2014 by darkside

[Xarg]

With some careful patching it might become an at least reasonable game, but I don't think I buy the mindset of giving them a pass just because nothing else good is out, same reason I don't give Bethesda a pass for making buggy games even when the modding community can fix them up in reasonable time. Of course, I've got a backlog that's somewhere around 50 titles long these days, so I don't need to make the choice of bad or worse, I just play something I already have that's still new.

[jtr7]

...............

Edited March 6, 2014 by jtr7

[AluminumHaste]

The player movement in Deadly Shadows is 10x worse than in Thief 4. The only thing DS does better is that you can jump and mantle, which was also broken really badly and only sometimes worked.

[Nacht7]

The player movement in Deadly Shadows is 10x worse than in Thief 4. The only thing DS does better is that you can jump and mantle, which was also broken really badly and only sometimes worked.

While moving around was difficult in TDS, at least I could move around. I could jump, mantle, and move all around as much as I pleased, no matter how broken it was.

Player freedom still existed in TDS. Thief 4 holds the player's hand everywhere.

Thief 4 would have benefited from fixing these features, but instead, they simply remove them and pretend they never were there.

Edited March 3, 2014 by Nacht7