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Thief 4 is trash.


Mystry
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Wait a minute here... are you guys saying that in NuThief, amidst all of the things they saved/discarded, and all the iptions included therein, there is *NO* permanently onscreen compass?!?! Are you sure its not just really small, and is circling the tiny NuGem?? :(

 

Yes, there isn't any isolated HUD compass to be used in NuThief...Like AH said, a compass is integrated in the GPS mini-map and the main map only.

Edited by Vae
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No the compass is available in the map in the menu AND on the minimap.

oh right, thiaf has a minimap. i disabled that garbage. thief games should not have minimaps, pretty much period. I stand by my statements. Having a minimap with a compass actually results in something even worse than I described, so i actually gave thiaf more credit than it deserved.

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Play how YOU want. You can customize EVERYTHING. ALL is optional.

 

You can moan all you want (about a gave you've never played) but the fact is - new Thief is the most customisable game, in terms of difficulty settings/rules and interface/hud elements, ever.

 

Ever.

 

The most customisable.

 

It's flawed in many ways but the customisation is second to none (from the menu, without having to play with files) and that is pretty damn awesome.

 

I'm playing on Master difficulty, no reticule, no mini-map, no Focus, no combat takedowns/aerial takedowns, no alert markers on AI, no waypoints, no loot glint, no interaction prompts and with difficult economy. My rope arrows cost 600g (450g now since I got an upgrade) instead of 75g. That's pretty damn amazing. The only things I have on are the light gem and object highlighting. I've set it to as close to classic Thief as possible. On my settings I can't even knock out civilians so cooks and servants have to be ghosted.

 

A compass would be nice. This level of customisation is infinitely nicer.

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I want your brain... to make his heart... beat faster.

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You can moan all you want (about a gave you've never played) but the fact is - new Thief is the most customisable game, in terms of difficulty settings/rules and interface/hud elements, ever.

 

Ever.

 

The most customisable.

 

doesn't makes it good though

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Proceed with caution!

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...no mini-map, no Focus, no combat takedowns/aerial takedowns, no alert markers on AI, no waypoints, no loot glint, no interaction prompts...

 

But original trilogy didn't have any of those things anyway... :P

 

It is nice that you can disable those features, I just don't believe they should be there in the first place. When I played Bioshock, I was amazed that there was a waypoint marker. I felt almost as if the dev's were telling me I was too stupid to find the way around the level myself. Or no way I'd have to use my brain to remember it! Thinking is so 1990's. :D But moreso, I felt that it was almost cheating to have a waypoint enabled and I was cheating myself out of the experience to learn the levels and really be immersed in the environment. Skyrim was a similar story, I was okay to have a waypoint marker, because I would run around all of Skyrim (literally) and I would get off track quite often, so I was happy that the waypoint marker was locked in with the compass. But I was still using the compass and then noticed the waypoint marker. Thankfully both those games allowed for it to be turned off as well.

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Righteous killing on the other hand is different. Has something to do with justice after all. There are still governments doing exactly that. Killing the murderers and rapists.

 

For some reason, I just remembered how much I hate Rednecks.

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My Eigenvalue is bigger than your Eigenvalue.

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For some reason, I just remembered how much I hate SHARKS!

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My Eigenvalue is bigger than your Eigenvalue.

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When I hear long time "fans" fawning over the new game they sometimes say something that makes me throw up in my mouth. It is this: "Im playing with all the settings to as close as possible to the originals". In light of the obliterated free form movement, what does that even mean?! As close to the originals as possible. I laugh my ass off at you for even saying something as silly as that. Why not just tattoo a dollar bill to your forehead its that silly.

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Thats why i told you to look it up, so you would not make such a beginner mistake. Its fine if you think i'm a big hypocrite or something. But try to get your facts straight.

 

William Blackstone (citing Edward Coke), in his Commentaries on the Laws of England set out the common law definition of murder, which by this definition occurs

when a person, of sound memory and discretion, unlawfully kills any reasonable creature in being and under the king's peace, with malice aforethought, either express or implied.

The elements of common law murder are:

  1. Unlawful
  2. killing
  3. of a human
  4. by another human
  5. with malice aforethought.[4]

The Unlawful – This distinguishes murder from killings that are done within the boundaries of law, such as capital punishment, justified self-defense, or the killing of enemy combatants during a war.[5]

Killing – At common law life ended with cardiopulmonary arrest[4] – the total and permanent cessation of blood circulation and respiration.[4] With advances in medical technology courts have adopted irreversible cessation of all brain function as marking the end of life.[4]

of a human – This element presents the issue of when life begins. At common law a fetus was not a human being. Life began when the fetus passed through the birth canal and took its first breath.[4]

by another human – at early common law suicide was considered murder.[4] The requirement that the person killed be someone other than the perpetrator excluded suicide from the definition of murder.

with malice aforethought – originally malice aforethought carried its everyday meaning – a deliberate and premeditated (prior intent) killing of another motivated by ill will. Murder necessarily required that an appreciable time pass between the formation and execution of the intent to kill. The courts broadened the scope of murder by eliminating the requirement of actual premeditation and deliberation as well as true malice. All that was required for malice aforethought to exist is that the perpetrator act with one of the four states of mind that constitutes "malice."

The four states of mind recognized as constituting "malice" are:

  • Intent to kill,
  • Intent to inflict grievous bodily harm short of death,
  • Reckless indifference to an unjustifiably high risk to human life (sometimes described as an "abandoned and malignant heart"), or
  • Intent to commit a dangerous felony (the "felony-murder" doctrine).

Under state of mind (i), intent to kill, the deadly weapon rule applies. Thus, if the defendant intentionally uses a deadly weapon or instrument against the victim, such use authorizes a permissive inference of intent to kill. In other words, "intent follows the bullet." Examples of deadly weapons and instruments include but are not limited to guns, knives, deadly toxins or chemicals or gases and even vehicles when intentionally used to harm a victim.

 

Despite being a blatant copy and paste, this follows a chain of definition and explanation that makes it pretty clear that even if you are hired to off the biggest scumbag in the city, it is still a premeditated act, with intent to kill, and thus murder. Common Law originated in England in the Middle Ages, and the TDM universe is pretty much "our world but we discovered steam a lot earlier. Also, magic", and while no location relatable to the actual world we live on is given, the relative history, similarities (Builders are effectively militant Catholics), it seems reasonable to assume that Common Law is still in effect, as it isn't late enough in the progression of the world and society for Common Law to have been merged with or replaced by Civil Law. If we instead assume that Roman Law, or some derivative of it is in effect, the punishment for murder, the definition of which is knowingly and maliciously kills a freeman, is death, the punishment for being caught stealing is death. Unless you're playing a mission where you are a law enforcement official tasked with bringing someone in who refuses, and is slain in the commission of the arrest, you're a murderer. You have no argument.

 

 

The commandment is (properly translated and looked at in context): don't murder, as in don't kill/slay/murder your neighbor. Righteous killing on the other hand is different. Has something to do with justice after all. There are still governments doing exactly that. Killing the murderers and rapists.

 

By "righteous killing" I assume you actually meant "justifiable homicide", which is still killing, and since you're playing as a thief 99% of the time (or you're Garrett, who doesn't like killing at all, but is still a wanted criminal and still allows the player to commit murder with his body), you immediately start without the moral high ground, and having one criminal execute another is hardly justice, even if the outcome would have been the same as having the first criminal apprehended and put through the judicial system of the time.

 

 

You find it ok to steal in a game? And in real-life also? Or not in real life but only in a game? How does your moral code work? But i guess you are not a hypocrite like me eh?

 

I really hope you aren't one of those "people who aren't religious can't/don't have morals" people, that would really disappoint me. I'll assume you are not, until proven otherwise, since I could ask you the same thing about theft, murder, and bearing false witness as you've played the games and done such acts.

 

 

If i were creating an fm i was not going to let the main character be a thief. More of a keeper/builder guy.

Thats the roles that i prefer. We cannot always choose though.

 

If you build it, I'd love to play it. More mission variety is always good, and I'd like to see more missions where you aren't stealing things (that aren't Swing) and aren't a thief/killer. One of the FM's here by Fieldmedic has you playing an investigator, and other than the difficulty curve of it, it's really quite good, I'd recommend it if you haven't played it already, I believe it's "Reap as you sow".

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A compass would be nice. This level of customisation is infinitely nicer.

 

I turned the objective indicator off now as well and have been playing with no hud and object highlight and its ok. I have the minimap enabled but you have to hit M to toggle it on or off. That's what I do in lue of a compass. If I want to get my bearings, I hit M, get bearings and then hit M again to turn it off. Its just like a compass only not and more like a gps but its what we have to work with.

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Well, if you want to be precise, he said it's "useless to expect them to make a new and better thief, because their job is making money".

 

That implies that making money excludes the possibility of making a new and better thief, which I disagree with.

Maybe I wasn't precise. I don't mean that money and art exclude each other all the time, I say that most of the time they do.

Someone comes up with something that is a success in many different ways. Other people think they could replicate that success by adding things to the old stuff, improving it, to keep making money.

Maybe they manage to replicate the commercial success, but only as an empty shell, devoid of originality and art.

It just doesn't work. If you're worried about the numbers, you'll be worried about peoples's expectations. Now, it's really hard to surprise people with

something fresh when you're tied to their expectations.

So, yes, it can happen, but not often, and certainly cannot be repeated at will.

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As i played played om master+ i did found that combination of space+guards+goal was demanding in most cases. Playing thief4 was like a picking chest lock - took me several attempts for difficult scenes, taking the right course of action required some exercise and what fun and thrill it was!

Memories of pawnhouse still fresh - i liked the way i could create chain of distractions to ghost locations seemed impossible to enter.

And looks of The Lost city - its like dark messiah of m&m but 10 times stronger

Edited by someTaff

What excuse do we have not to sculpt, and sculpt, and sculpt, until the job is done?

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am playing with stuff turned off, have objective tracking turned off (it only turns it of on the hud, on the map accessed via f1 its still there), and mini-map turned off (I dont use the compass in previous thief games), loot glint off, and frob hilight off, that press key to do something on screen turned off. Most of the main maps are so linear you don't need to be shown where to go next.

 

I looked at some of the walkthroughs for chapters I've already done, and while there are loads of them they seem to have been written by one person, and they use the kill everything that moves option, (xbox version, ps3/4 version, pc version, its the same walkthrough in most cases), I was looking for a loot list as with everything to indicate what is loot turned off, I've missed alot from what is shown on the end chapter screen.

Edited by stumpy
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As far as object highlight it is a better implementation as far as doors and drawers/cabinets go because it only highlights the handle which IMO is better than the whole door especially when you're in darkness.

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Either drop the religion thing or take it to a new thread. It's gone beyond silly.

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I laugh my ass off at you for even saying something as silly as that. Why not just tattoo a dollar bill to your forehead its that silly.

 

No, you're the stoopid one, stoopid. :rolleyes:

 

Seriously, what part of "don't tell other people what they're allowed to think" do you not understand? Cut it out.

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In light of the obliterated free form movement, what does that even mean?! As close to the originals as possible.

 

Seems like a rhetorical question. It means people are making the best of what they have to work with. Some people are optimists. I'm sure some of us have other names for them.

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am playing with stuff turned off, have objective tracking turned off (it only turns it of on the hud, on the map accessed via f1 its still there), and mini-map turned off (I dont use the compass in previous thief games), loot glint off, and frob hilight off, that press key to do something on screen turned off. Most of the main maps are so linear you don't need to be shown where to go next.

 

I looked at some of the walkthroughs for chapters I've already done, and while there are loads of them they seem to have been written by one person, and they use the kill everything that moves option, (xbox version, ps3/4 version, pc version, its the same walkthrough in most cases), I was looking for a loot list as with everything to indicate what is loot turned off, I've missed alot from what is shown on the end chapter screen.

There's ghost walkthough on youtube

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What excuse do we have not to sculpt, and sculpt, and sculpt, until the job is done?

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