Fan Mission: Lords & Legacy by Kvorning (2013/08/30)

[Kvorning]

I'll try to be a little vague:

 

The elevator shaft has 4 doors which opens, one for each floor. You're looking for one of these doors.

 

[chakkman]

Thanks, that should help.

[Springheel]

Played this for the first time the last few nights. Overall I thought it was tremendously ambitious, grand and with some areas in the top of the list of TDM aesthetics. The Commons and the outside of the keep were particularly impressive, and I really appreciated some of the creativity that went into things like the water in the slums (even though I didn't find it completely convincing) and the cables and electrical boxes. The best gameplay, IMO, was in the area leading to the keep.

 

 

 

The inside of the towers was less enjoyable to me--I wasn't really sold on the architecture, and the AI placement made things rather easy, except in one or two places--but even then I had enough gas arrows to deal with any problems. This actually caused me to disengage from the story a bit, partially because by the time I got to the tower I had forgotten all the backstory in the briefing, and partially because I found the tower significantly less interesting than the city section. I didn't really have any sense of who the people inside the tower were, the guard patrols were pretty short and predictable, and I was mostly exploring blind, with a lot of areas looking very similar.

 

I missed the killer objective entirely, nor did I find the sewers I've heard people mention. I was also at least 500 loot short of the loot goal, even though I feel like I cleared out the entire two towers...that was a bit frustrating, as I hate sticking around for loot hunts once my primary objective is done. Technically I haven't even finished the mission, but I'm not sure I'm up to combing the city for more loot on my route back.

 

Few brief comments:

 

I loved the cube-map windows--they looked fantastic.

Great patchwork throughout!

I tried multiple times to pickpocket but couldn't--seemed like frob distance on the purses was extremely low.

The wooden walkway connecting the towers seemed unfair to me...it was essentially an invisible trap that brought three or four guards running up there. Something like that should come with clues to suggest that there might be an issue, IMO. Maybe there was and I missed it. A lot of people are mentioning readables, but I didn't find very many, and very few in the tower itself.

On the subject of readables, there were so many frobbable books and scrolls that didn't do anything that I eventually stopped picking them up.

The wind outside the keep was deafening, but it stood out as strange because none of the trees or banners were moving, and the guards had open torches.

 

 

 

Very much looking forward to your next one!

[Kvorning]

Thanks Springheel, I gotta say I pretty much agree with you on all the points that you mentioned. So much I'd do different if second time, but obviously I can't keep redoing the same map over and over. If I went insane and did that, I'd do it as an 'All Commons" map as well

 

I got my hands a bit full at the moment so the next mission still doesn't have an ETA, but it's well under way and the hardest parts are done, with the lessons above in mind.

[pusianka]

Ok, I am still in the process of getting through this one but I already need to say that it is so far the most interesting cityscape I've played in TDM!

[Oldjim]

Interesting little glitch

In the basement under Flat 1-4

 

 

I even managed to get both of them to fall through the floor not just the bottom one on one occasion

 

Edited October 2, 2014 by Oldjim

[Oldjim]

A question - has something changed in the latest revision

I see from when I played it on expert last time I started with one gas arrow and now there isn't one

When I played last time I apparently found one in the apartment block but this time I haven't

Is this because it has been removed or am I just looking in the wrong place

[Oldjim]

Update

I don't know why but something is falling apart playing on 2.02

Without failing the ghost objective several of the guards in the commons and the keep were alerted by a sound or glimpsed from a high level and then went on permanent alert

One pair in the area where you approach the statues with the rings and the other area where 3 guards are milling around in the entrance to the keep area.

They stay on full alert and prevent the completion of the FM as you can't get past them

[Kvorning]

Hi Oldjim,

 

Sorry for the slow reply, but I'm afraid I got no idea what's causing the bugs. If there's been an update to TDM since last update I did on the mission, there might be a few things going off track.

 

As for the Gas Arrow thing, I did nerf the starting gear for all difficulties. I thought it was too easy with all that gear.

[Oldjim]

It appears that there is a generic problem playing this mission with the guard sight and sound set to most difficult

The guards are alerted without failing the ghost objective and then don't drop out of the alert searching mode and all the other guards join in

Even in the house which you can access from the sewers (entry under the stairs) the man if woken keeps looking indefinitely but only moving in a very small area. There were a lot of red alerts in the console apparently indicating he couldn't find a path

The single guard with the torch who goes round the tower with the statues stops walking round and just stays in one place searching and there were three guards on alert at the entrance to the keep where the sewer access is

[Kvorning]

I played through the mission a couple of weeks back and the only thing I noticed, was the missing door that was reported. I make for a horrible tester as I built it however.

 

In any case I don't have any plans to patch this mission further I'm afraid, but thank you for the input regardless

[DeusXIncognita]

Nice mission, lots of possible exploring too.

 

 

Couldn't see the visual clue that should give away not openable windows though, was making exploring hard sometimes.

 

I also had a bit of bad luck regarding the elevator, I tried the wrong florr first (the one without the cabin, didn't see the call button (tried all the others in the room (for the light), and then opened the door to jump in. That didn't work, so the elevator was non-functional to me.

So of course i missed a few very importan spots.

I needed the clue from the forum to get back right on track.

 

Also I didn't see the side that opens the glass vitrine at the end.

But blind lockpicking into it and then trying to open it worked - although I was a bit stumoed that the opening was on the other side of which I picked.

 

Otherwise its just fun, though the performance was in some areas really bad.

Some time since that mission has been done, but i am glad i have finall< played it.

 

[MirceaKitsune]

Just played this one yesterday, so it's fresh in my memory. It has everything you'd expect from a good mission: Proper detail, moderate length, as well as a few secret areas to jump around and find. As with most missions however, I would have loved seeing an outro as well, not only an intro.

 

 

In this case about how the evil lord is accused after the fake letter is found, and pleads that he's not guilty... them how the townsfolk react to the news.

 

 

 

BTW, there's one thing I didn't understand: What does the objective "discover the identity of the killer" mean? Apparently it's completed when you break into a guy's apartment, open a chest in his kitchen (which makes the ground shake and alerts the owner), and inside you find many skulls and a letter about someone playing with sharp objects (couldn't read it clearly since he was right behind me and I was almost caught).

 

[s.urfer]

Hi! I'm a bit late to the game, so to speak

 

I'm playing under DM2.02, and so far this mission was very enjoyable.

 

Unfortunately, now I seem to be stuck.

 

 

Entering the keep from the sewers, I find all guards on high alert.

I even tried to reload an earlier save, where I'm rather certain, that I didn't really do anything, to alert them and took extra precautions, to not be seen or heard.

Alas, coming up from the sewers, the guards were on high alert.

I tucked myself into an dark corner and let the game sit for over an hour now, still - they are on high alert.

Any remedy for this?

 

Edited December 29, 2014 by s.urfer

[s.urfer]

Well, I toyed a bit with the problem and found something, that might have caused the situation. ( I gave up after well over two hours of sitting in a dark corner )

 

To check the extent of the alert,

 

I went all the way back to the lady in 4-6, only to find her also all riled up.

 

Thinking of what would have caused that commotion, after I earlier left there, I could think of two things:

 

Dropping myself into the sewer or opening the chest in 2-5, plus maybe throwing Hannibal down the elevator shaft.

 

To test the theories, I reloaded again and

 

Gassed the guy in 2-5, opened the chest, but didn't throw him down: Full alert in apartment 4-6.

 

OK, so it seems to be that

 

Opening the chest basically rocks the whole world. Without going for the Curious Cat objective, I'm now approching a peaceful and quiet keep..

 

Perhaps someone can check for an incompatibility of that particular scene and DM2.2?

 

[SteveL]

Cool, that sounds plausible. In normal play, guards should calm down although there are a couple of things that can keep a.guard spooked all night I believe, including catching full sight of you. I plan to play L&L again during 2.03 testing and we're looking at search behavior so I'll keep an eye out for it.

[Noordung]

Could those challenges be optional? Because i really dont want to do them all just to finish mission.

[Oldjim]

I have had guards going on permanent alert/searching which causes great difficulty in completing it

I didn't check the effect of achieving the Curious Cat objective on the alerts of other guards etc.

 

Edit

Just checked and opening the chest didn't alert them if the doors from the lift shaft are closed but if they are open then the guards outside are alerted

Edited January 20, 2015 by Oldjim

[Philflound]

Is there a way to see your final objectives checked off after you complete the mission? I was like 1050 loot short. Great game though. Kept me on my toes.

[VanishedOne]

You can view mission statistics from the 'mission complete' screen, which will include loot, but there's no Thief-style display of your completed objectives available from that screen. (Actually that might be nice to have, in a mission with optional objectives...)

[Philflound]

I ask because I did ghost it and did not black jack anyone. It would be nice to see those checked off. Forget the loot though, going back I still am missing like 900.

[CountMorillonite]

This was a GREAT mission. Couldn't find all of the loot on my own, but that's ok. I like to check all of the boxes on the objective menu, but I don't like to ghost, so I felt forced into it as those check boxes are on all 3 difficulty levels (even if they are optional and don't trigger the mission to end).

 

I had to replay the mission when I "found" the identity of the killer and all hell broke loose. Seems everybody was alerted, from the killer himself, to the guards on the street. I couldn't pickpocket any loot from guards on high alert. On second try of the mission, I completed everything first and grabbed the evidence of the killer before heading for mission end. I don't know if this was the way it's supposed to play out or whether It was happenstance.

[darksilence]

Great mission.

The town is really fun to explore, and the towers are absolutely stunning, both from outside and inside!

On 5/15/2019 at 12:07 AM, CountMorillonite said:

I had to replay the mission when I "found" the identity of the killer and all hell broke loose. Seems everybody was alerted, from the killer himself, to the guards on the street. I couldn't pickpocket any loot from guards on high alert. On second try of the mission, I completed everything first and grabbed the evidence of the killer before heading for mission end. I don't know if this was the way it's supposed to play out or whether It was happenstance.

 

This happened to me too, so I'm guessing it was intended? For me that was the only negative part of the mission. I'm not really a fan of "surprises" that create alerts, and just like you I didn't know if this was intended or if it was some kind of bug.

Other than that, really great mission, and I'll probably replay it soon and leave the killer for the end.

Edited January 7, 2021 by darksilence

[datiswous]

Fantastic mission! Both in looks (even today, came out in 2013) and in gameplay.

[Loginnerer]

Was trying to jump the gate to the west of guard tower. Could not mantle it, so loud landing on pipe ruined my run. Up until that point - very nice atmosphere with alternate routes. Definite revisit.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Loginnerer