Why not combine frob and use item?

[Albert]

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Edited March 31, 2020 by Albert

[Serpentine]

Just bind it to mouse 3? I find the combo-use very annoying personally, it's transparent design... but too transparent that the logic doesnt make sense and frustration is just not worth it.

[Professor Paul1290]

I think lockpicks and keys already work that way, though maybe I'm completely misunderstanding this.

 

I think it would be a better solution to move the default "Use" key to somewhere easier to get to than enter. Maybe somewhere closer to the left hand (WASD) area.

 

Combining frob and use would be a problem because TDM has objects and items where frob and use actions are available simultaneously (candles come to mind).

[Albert]

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Edited March 31, 2020 by Albert

[Albert]

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Edited March 31, 2020 by Albert

[Professor Paul1290]

In any case the default should probably be changed at some point. "Enter" isn't exactly the most convenient place for something as frequently used as this.

[Albert]

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Edited March 31, 2020 by Albert

[Serpentine]

Maybe we need to do an analysis thread to figure out the norms in good games/similar applications. I agree that enter is a bit of a strange key, but at the same time having the Q/E leans is very nice. In my mind 'use' defaults to 'e' then to 'enter/return', when I am learning something control (ok apps sometimes have it as 'space'... but that's some real strange stuff.)

[Albert]

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Edited March 31, 2020 by Albert

[IHaveReturned]

I'll second the OP's sentiment. I never found the Thief control scheme to be more intrusive than TDM's divide of use and frob is.

[Springheel]

We separated them specifically to relieve the frustration of accidentally drinking a potion when what you meant to do was open a door, which happens easily in T1/2.

 

I have my use set to "tab", which is nice and handy.

[Mortem Desino]

The design problem I see is that TDM's frob is more extensive than Thief's use of frob. Thief's was essentially limited to 1. World Activation (e.g. doors, buttons) 2. Move-to-Inventory (grabbing a water crystal, grabbing loot, hauling a crate in Thief's clunky fashion). 3. Inventory Activation. (e.g. drink potion)

 

TDM added another use of the frob key, which is 4. Grabber Manipulation (e.g. pick up moveable & drop moveable). This would excessively crowd the functionality of one button, so some function of the key had to be relocated. The one with the most potential to be frustrating is Inventory Activation. Thus, the "use" key is born. No longer do I accidentally lob a mine when all I want is to frob a mass of loot from a table!

[Albert]

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Edited March 31, 2020 by Albert

[New Horizon]

I have 'use' mapped to the 'mouse 3' key, which is usually built into the scroll wheel these days. Super convenient.

[jtr7]

............

Edited February 19, 2014 by jtr7

[Serpentine]

Maybe we could add a default to put it onto mouse 3, personally it's what I use, pretty sure the engine doesn't mind 3 binds

[Professor Paul1290]

I have my use set to "tab", which is nice and handy.

 

Dang, I should start doing that!

 

I left it on "U" because at some point it was bound to "U" so I got used to it and just kept using that key!

 

Maybe we could add a default to put it onto mouse 3, personally it's what I use, pretty sure the engine doesn't mind 3 binds

 

The problem with Mouse 3 (scroll wheel I think?) is that it's "block" by default and, while not used often, does need to be used pretty quickly and with good timing when you do use it.

 

On the other hand, I don't recall "Tab" having an existing default binding (could be wrong though).

 

 

On a related note, it seems there's still that odd issue where if you have a flashbomb selected while holding a body, candle, carrot, or any item with a "use" action available then you'll drop a flashbomb upon hitting "use".

This results in dropping an F-bomb when you don't want to drop an F-bomb, and possibly causing you to drop an F-bomb.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Professor Paul1290

[Serpentine]

The problem with Mouse 3 (scroll wheel I think?) is that it's "block" by default and, while not used often, does need to be used pretty quickly and with good timing when you do use it.

 

Ah good call, one step ahead of me

 

Still think its worth investigating. Cant see anyone really blocking enough to make it worth it.

[Springheel]

On a related note, it seems there's still that odd issue where if you have a flashbomb selected while holding a body, candle, carrot, or any item with a "use" action available then you'll drop a flashbomb upon hitting "use".

 

Never noticed that. Can you file a tracker entry?

[Professor Paul1290]

Never noticed that. Can you file a tracker entry?

 

Done

[AluminumHaste]

Yeah that's never happened before, will try to reproduce later on.

[Obsttorte]

The first thing I do after I've installed a game is to change the keyboard settings. I have use on g, which works like a charm. Of course the default settings could be changed, but what is the problem in investing 5 minutes to take a look at the keyboard settings?

 

And I think that one of the things that is much better in TDM then in Thief, is the fact that the frob and use actions were seperated.

[MacD11]

I think it would be nice to have the ability to combine frob and use as an option, but it really is better to have them seperate by default.

[Sakonosolo]

I really hated how frob and use item were one keybind in the first two Thief games. Combined with the default where picked up items are immediately switched to, too many times did I have a flash bomb or something else usable equipped and used it instead of opening a door if I was in a hurry. So much so that I turned off "automatic switch to picked up item" in Thief 2, which made it a pain when picking up letters/notes and having to search for them to read.

 

And as for above, I've never noticed items being used instead of bodies or candles either. I'd imagine that bodies and candles when holding them have priority over whatever is in the item slot.

Edited October 12, 2013 by Sakonosolo

[Albert]

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Edited March 31, 2020 by Albert