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New players: How did you deal with "that guard" the first time? (Spoiler Warning: Tears of St. Lucia)


"That Guard" (Spoiler: Tears of St. Lucia)  

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  1. 1. How did you get past "that guard" without being seen?

    • I found out how to distract him and got him to move from his position.
      6
    • I found out how to safely knock-out or otherwise neutralize him in-place (no distraction needed).
      1
    • I did not have to deal with him directly, I found out the alternative route.
      23
    • None of the above. I had a different way. (explain)
      0
    • I didn't, he saw me and I had to fight him or run from him. F*** that bastard!
      10


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I wouldn't consider that a physics issue. It doesn't have a sign saying "go down here" but there is a glow that should draw the eye if people are looking for somewhere to go.

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Woulda been cool if you threw stuff at the vase and it clattered against the window and the vase doesn't come down and on the third attempt the window opens and either 1 - the window opens out and kno

Yep. The briefing says specifically that "the front is liable to be well guarded, so I'll have to look for another way in". But if there was one thing about St. Lucia that makes it not ideal for new

Do you not consider the extravagant reaction of the game engine a bug? Otherwise the system is too brittle.

I think he means the slight chance to fall down the passage in the sewers while running around the corner since you're bound to think you're on the right path already. I only found that by falling down it too; it was really cruelly hidden thanks to the constant water level.

Incorrect. What I was trying to refer to was definitely a thing that depended on how physics responds. It had to do with throwing. Specifically, It was

knocking the jar off the shelf by throwing things at it[/spolier]. Doing that step is essential to getting access to the alternate route and no matter what I did, no matter how many things I threw, from how many different angles,

the annoying jar just got pushed further back onto the shelf into an more stable position each time it got hit by something. Trying to actually knock it off was the thing that took a half hour of boring trying againg and again and again.

 

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You're not supposed to throw something at it, although that can work. Shooting arrows works, or in a pinch you can actually climb up there.

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Also don't throw from straight on, because, well, physics, throw from the side at an angle, even better to throw at the back/behind so what you throw bounces and drops it off the edge.

 

It's actually the physics working properly! ;-)

"The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out."

- Baron Thomas Babington Macauley

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Also don't throw from straight on, because, well, physics, throw from the side at an angle, even better to throw at the back/behind so what you throw bounces and drops it off the edge.

 

It's actually the physics working properly! ;-)

Incorrect. Becuase I *was* throwing from a side angle. It still just shoved it into a corner of the windowsill where even arrows wouldn't get it out.

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You're not supposed to throw something at it, although that can work. Shooting arrows works, or in a pinch you can actually climb up there.

Then the hint is badly phrased because throwing stuff at it is exactly what the note says, and the area is littered with plenty of throwable objects that make it look that that was the intended solution.

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Also don't throw from straight on, because, well, physics, throw from the side at an angle, even better to throw at the back/behind so what you throw bounces and drops it off the edge.

 

It's actually the physics working properly! ;-)

 

Incorrect. Becuase I *was* throwing from a side angle. It still just shoved it into a corner of the windowsill where even arrows wouldn't get it out.

 

Which is exactly what I described, aside from you leaving out the back/behind part. How is that incorrect? You describe a corner straight behind. Once it's shoved into a corner, of course stuff won't get it out by applying force to the front of it (unless it's made of rubber/squishes and rebounds). You'd want to throw something that won't bounce above it into the windowsill corner, such that it would drop down behind the object to wedge it out, after getting it stuck. The problem with this tactic is in TDM the physical representation tends to be flat topped, so the object might just fall to land on top.

 

Either way, pushing it straight into a windowsill corner is obviously correct physics, and matches what I describe, well, except for ignoring the main point of tossing behind to push it outward, instead of forcing it into a corner. Play billiards. Or any kids game where you throw a ball against a wall. Even marbles will demonstrate Newton's third law, "for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction".

 

Aside from playing some pool, you might also want to learn about Fundamental Attribution Error.

 

PS: It never occurred to me to shoot it with arrows, I wouldn't claim that's obvious especially for folks new to the game, since some games restrict projectiles for use on MOBs/AI while this is a totally different context. But then I went through the mission never having even seen it, it was only afterward when I saw a video I went back and threw a couple things at it, and subsequently also climbed up. I never saw/knew before now there was a hint.

"The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out."

- Baron Thomas Babington Macauley

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I just can't see anybody looking at this vase on a windowsill and thinking "hmmmm, if only I had some readily available aerodynamic object able to harness human kinetic energy and travel quickly over a large distance and influence an object at range in exchange for good marksmanship... ooo, a bottle!"

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Woulda been cool if you threw stuff at the vase and it clattered against the window and the vase doesn't come down and on the third attempt the window opens and either 1 - the window opens out and knocks the vase off, or 2 - the window opens up or in and somebody appears and yells down at you to cut that out, and takes the vase and throws it at you to chase you away.

 

Voila! A vase at your feet.

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Then the hint is badly phrased because throwing stuff at it is exactly what the note says, and the area is littered with plenty of throwable objects that make it look that that was the intended solution

 

The note just says you'll need to find a way to knock it down. It doesn't say anything about throwing.

 

It's a shame you found it frustrating though.

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  • 3 weeks later...

He saw me, and i ran and ran, then circled back. Theres an alternative route? I gotta replay and find it!

 

In TDM... There is always an alternative way.

 

Almost always anyways.

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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There are at least a dozen LPs of people shooting it down with an arrow (...) You're not supposed to throw something at it, although that can work. Shooting arrows works, or in a pinch you can actually climb up there.

I've had issues with it, too. I don't know if it's much different today vs. a year+ ago when I last *really* tried, but I remember wasting like 15 arrows without it falling down. Other times I remember it has come down more easily. It just seems to depend on if the physics want to be finicky. It shouldn't need more than an arrow or two, but it sometimes did/does(?). It might need to be placed on something that makes it sit on an angle or more unbalanced to make it more apt to falling. That said, I just mantled up there today and reached out with a lit candle to knock it down :) Then left the lit candle sitting in its place. It's not easy getting a lit candle up that high; especially since you can't climb with a candle in your hand.

(EDIT: Yeah, just tried again, and it's still doesn't come down very easily when you're standing in front of it from the ground and shooting up at it. I launched around 10 arrows at it to no avail... so stepped off to the side and hit it from that direction and it fell. It should fall off pretty easily no matter where you shoot it from, imo.)

 

 

 

As for getting past the guard, I think I might have found an alternate path around him once ... but I have no clue how to do it anymore. I've tried a couple times the past week, and the only way I can get past is to run past him and hide. Maybe I need to pay more attention to the readables (which I didn't do).

 

 

Does it have anything to do with what appears to be a secret room in the Bear and Belcher Tavern? Is it possible to get into that secret room? I took a candle and looked all around that place to no avail. No secret switches or anything found.

 

I also took the key from the pot and opened the padlock and went down through the sewers a couple times the past week, but I popped out before the guard. It didn't take me past him. Maybe there's another path in there that I need to find/take?

 

So, yeah. I've played Thief a long time... and I think this is a pretty challenging introduction to it, lol. I think it could benefit from a couple more options to getting around that guard. I can understand a little if the solution is in one of the texts, but not everyone likes reading in game or is used to texts giving the only solution to a problem.

 

 

(EDIT: Okay, I finally found the way everyone is talking about, but that's mainly because I was on the look-out for an obscure alternate path based on this thread's posts/feedback. I almost walked right past it again. Yeah, it seems too obscure of thing for an intro mission, imo. I recognized the area, so I must have been there a long time ago, though.

 

And at the Bear & Belcher, I still can't tell if the room with a dead rat in it is accessible. If not, that's just mean to have there ;) There's even a strange blue-ish thing in there that piques my curiosity (I can't tell what it is). A newbie should be rewarded for finding a way to get in there to encourage them to do similar things in future missions. I've spent an hour looking for a switch or something to get in there with no success. Even brought a crate in there from down the street to stand on at the cracked door, and even propped a 2x6 plank against that door to try and see if that vantage point would help anything. If there's a way in, I recommend making it a tad more apparent; assuming this mission is intended to be an introduction to TDM gameplay. It also looks like there's maybe an area to explore up above the room where the guy is sitting in the tavern (if you look through the slats of the ceiling, there is intrigue), but I can't figure out how to get there, if it's possible. I'm not used to inaccessible areas like that in Thief-like gameplay; there's usually a purpose to such curiosities. PS: If you launch two or three broadheads at the dead rat, he goes crazy in that room, heh. Goes airborne and bounces off of walls, etc.)

Edited by Darkness_Falls
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I was surprised that an "intro" mission would have something so tricky right off the bat. I had failed initially at figuring out the secret entrance steps, so I attempted (unsuccessfully) to deal with the guard. Combat is still a weakness of mine in TDM, but at the time I was completely terrible at it (I've since upgraded to "mediocre"). So I used it as fuel to figure out the sewer entrance steps.

 

In retrospect, more creative things like flash bombs and noise arrows seem obvious. I'll pretend that I didn't think of them bc I was playing my first TDM mission, but it's a little embarassing that it never occurred to me until reading about it in this thread. But it was a unique challenge, at least.

"Fancy burricks are afraid of dogs, if they encounter each other the dog barks and the burricks poop." - Thief: Deadly Shadows Game Designer

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