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[Resolved in TDM 2.06] Few suggestions, improvements...


Coder5546

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Hi, I have a two suggestions, the first is the addition of a resolution of 1366x768, it should be very useful for laptop users.

I think that a good idea is also... equipment menu, should be very helpful.

 

Regards

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Or ability to enter custom resolution in game. You can in a text file, I have mine set to 1600 by 834 for my laptop that way.

"The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out."

- Baron Thomas Babington Macauley

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I think that a good idea is also... equipment menu, should be very helpful.

 

:huh:

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Guessing here, but I think he's referring to something like a commo rose in BF series and other modern ways to switch tools and equipment in a radiant-menu-GUI-system-thingy. Something like Dishonored has for switching weapons and abilities. Press a button, move mouse, release button and you have what you wanted. Maybe?

 

Could be good, could be bad. I wasn't that fond of it in Dishonored and time nearly stopped when you accessed it. Would need some serious designing to get it working and not obstructing or annoying. And optional.

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Oh, one of those. Yeah, our design philosophy revolves around a minimalist HUD, so those kinds of rpg inventory screens don't really fit. I know it can be annoying trying to select something specific though. The topic comes up from time to time, but we haven't found the perfect solution yet.

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I had a little idea, which I haven't really looked at the feasibility. But something like a hold-down toggle that expands the right hand side inventory upwards, showing the other items along with their bound key (if any) in a little bracket or something.

 

Just so that you can get a quick overview without having to cycle. But also not making it into an interactive menu that just gets annoying and design-y.

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I'm on board with a minimalist HUD too, but honestly inventory is one thing where I'd be open minded & curious to see some new ideas ... because managing the inventory is admittedly annoying when you have a lot of things.

 

Maybe someone could play with some ideas in a branch version & we could see videos of them in action, to see how well they fit with the game in practice.

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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Oh, one of those. Yeah, our design philosophy revolves around a minimalist HUD, so those kinds of rpg inventory screens don't really fit. I know it can be annoying trying to select something specific though. The topic comes up from time to time, but we haven't found the perfect solution yet.

 

Yes, I know, screenshots are just an example of equipment, such as: boots, armor, trousers.

I know, this is difficult to do..

Let the Gothic 2 screenshot http://rpg.sztab.com/tapety/Gothic-2 235957,1.jpg, the menu is simple but comfortable.

Edited by Coder5546
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As I'm thinking about this topic, is it possible to have inventory items that don't show up when the player scrolls through the inventory? (Before you get confused, this is the right topic to post that question ;) )

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That was one suggestion someone mentioned...an inventory object like a sack, where you could dump objects that you didn't want to drop, but didn't want to have to cycle past every time. Not sure quite how it would work.

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As I'm thinking about this topic, is it possible to have inventory items that don't show up when the player scrolls through the inventory? (Before you get confused, this is the right topic to post that question ;) )

You mean something like keys in an oldschool game? Where you just collect and have them automatically used when needed?

I'm no fan of keys - but I think its nice to have some kind of 'Oh, let me check if I have that' when you find a clue. Would also possibly give too much away when you pick up a certain item and it vanishes.

 

I could be completely wrong tho :)

 

I do like an inventory overview toggle idea still, will see if I can mock up a shot of my mental image.

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I do like an inventory overview toggle idea still, will see if I can mock up a shot of my mental image.

 

Note, the natural followup to that will be, "Why can't we just click on an item in that list?"

 

There have been only two missions that I had inventory issues with, both of which had excessive keys, most of which didn't seem to even be used. People don't seem to overdo it with inventoried readables since those have a higher barrier to creation.

 

Perhaps a solution would be to simply make keys separate like weapons? They already have their own subsection in inventory, but perhaps exclude them from inventory and have a virtual key ring instead? The same shortcut would still work to cycle through keys, but they wouldn't clutter inventory just like the dozen weapons don't. This would negate requiring a new UI.

 

PS: For those who want to access inventory via mouse, do you switch weaponry that way? If not, you can map the mouse wheel to cycle inventory instead.

"The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out."

- Baron Thomas Babington Macauley

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Here's an idea for a change that could solve the inventory clutter problem with one extra hotkey and no HUD changes:

  • Non-equipment inventory items aren't highlighted in the HUD inventory slot by default
  • The [ and ] hotkeys for cycling inventory ONLY cycle through useable equipment. The hotkey names should probably change to be more specific: "Cycle Equipment" or such.
  • Add a new "Cycle Miscellaneous Inventory" hotkey that cycles only through non-equipment inventory items (readables, quest objects, keys, etc)

This allows you to scroll through equipment easily and ignore the extra junk, but you can still access that extra junk if you choose to. A potential problem I see here is the possibility for people who don't know about the hotkey to lose track of mission-critical objects. If it becomes a core feature then it would be just one of those things you have to learn to play, though.

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Non-equipment inventory items aren't highlighted in the HUD inventory slot by default

 

What would be considered "non-equipment"?

 

People are aware of the ability to use hotkeys, right? I have my flashbombs, health potions, spyglass and lockpicks all set to hotkeys. Maps and the lantern have default hotkeys. There are also keys to cycle through categories (keys, readables, etc). It's not perfect, but there's certainly some flexibility there.

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What would be considered "non-equipment"?

Anything outside of standard tools/equipment that you might buy from the shop at the start of a mission.

 

I do use the hotkeys for the spyglass, lockpicks and the map and am aware there are hotkeys for other common inventory items. I wasn't aware there are hotkeys for readables and keys, which is good to know. My current mode of play is to use a few hotkeys I have memorized and then cycle to find the rest with [ and ], which is of course horribly inefficient :) If one uses existing hotkeys then inventory clutter would really only be a problem for FM-specific inventory objects, which isn't so bad.

 

I'm now thinking that an additional hotkey for inventory cycling is not especially necessary if I did my hotkey homework! A hotkey to cycle through just equipment would be kind of nice though (cue someone chiming in to tell me the existing hotkey for this ;)).

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The way I might imagine it is a hotkey that pulls over a very basic grid of inventory items, by category, and one of them would have a box around it (and game time is still running). Then using the arrow keys (or possibly WASD) moves the box over items, and sets the current inventory item to that, then hitting the hotkey again returns to normal with that item in the current-inv item space.

 

I think that way you'd still use the normal way to scroll through items most of the time, but in a pinch if you wanted to find one specific item and have a big inventory, you could pull over the grid and select it. It's not really for inv management, but just eases the burden finding & selecting something in some cases.

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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You mean something like keys in an oldschool game? Where you just collect and have them automatically used when needed?

No. :)

 

I mean that the object just don't show up in inventory, but can still be accessed via a hotkey.

 

Maybe that approach is a bit vague. Imagine it like the player having a map, and by pressing the map hotkey the map shows up. But if he cycles through the inventory, he won't see it.

FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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Maybe that approach is a bit vague. Imagine it like the player having a map, and by pressing the map hotkey the map shows up. But if he cycles through the inventory, he won't see it.

Ahh ok, now I'm with you.

 

I think that does however, hide too much from the player.

 

When I fish this bloody netbook finally (turns out the kid managed to break one of the two usb ports and now its soldering time). I'll mock up my mental image for hold-down overview thing. I think it's a potentially good and minimal effort idea.

 

No intereaction = best interaction. Not making it console-tarded, but just... not making inventory in the game into a big feature which will be piled into. TDM is not an RPG. :)

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I'd love to see some kind of simple inventory overview. The original games had screens that took you out of the game to view objectives and to view and cycle through maps, and the second classic game had an additional screen where you could type your own notes. A simple screen to take a quick glance at your current inventory wouldn't represent a departure from Thief's minimalist design paradigm.

 

I've often sought such a screen in the bigger, more ambitious FMs. While the different cycling categories helps, it would still help to have a single quick key press to take a quick overview of everything you have. Do I have 2 moss arrows or 1? Do I have 4 water arrows or 3? How many health potions do I have? Do I have a key I haven't used yet? You can answer all these questions at once with a quick overview, whereas without it you have to pull out multiple arrow types or cycle through different weapons and inventory items. I'd argue that implementing such a screen increases minimalist inventory interaction.

 

Heck, in the original Thief intro video, Garrett himself stops to open and look at his own inventory (check 1:05 of the original Thief intro).

 

I know there's an instinct to see Thief: Deadly Shadows as an example of the many things one can do wrong with Thief, but the developers had some good ideas, even if the execution of those ideas was off. For example, they implemented an inventory screen. I guess... don't damn the idea for its poor execution, right?

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I've always used the mousewheel for inventory in Thief (can't remember if it was possible in TDP). Selecting items this way is almost effortless, although in missions with a lot of items there is a lot of searching involved (but that is a fault of the inventory system in general). The clearest advantage to using this system is that if you use your index finger for mousewheel (as I do) then you can still frob stuff and obviously the left hand is free to do whatever, most essentially manipulate movement. I also have tab set to clear inventory for convenience. Selecting weapons is more of an annoyance, especially the weapons with number keys closer to the right side of the keyboard, but one selects weapons less frequently than items so I can live with it.

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  • nbohr1more changed the title to [Resolved in TDM 2.06] Few suggestions, improvements...

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