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On 4/28/2023 at 3:00 PM, OrbWeaver said:

I never realised Bill Gates was a member of these forums. Welcome to the community! I hope you enjoy The Dark Mod. Perhaps your Foundation could help pay for the server hosting or fund the development of some new features?

https://www.techradar.com/news/windows-10-isnt-the-most-vulnerable-operating-system-its-actually-linux

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16 hours ago, Zerg Rush said:

Yes, I'm familiar with this sort of junk-science "analysis" assembled by journalists or random tech companies counting stuff in a database and using it to form some kind of conclusion.

Side note: one of the dumbest articles I ever read was some lazy tech journalist trying to decide which Steam games were popular based entirely on the average total play time (in hours and minutes). He concluded that everybody hated "HL2: The Lost Coast" because the average play time was about 15 minutes, without bothering to check that The Lost Coast is actually a short tech demo that can be completed in a few minutes, so obviously people aren't going to rack up hundreds of hours playing it.

For example, consider these numbers:

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And Debian, a flavor of Linux, was top of the table with 3,067 vulnerabilities over the last two decades. Reasonably close behind was Android on 2,563 vulnerabilities, with the Linux kernel in third place having racked up a count of 2,357. Apple’s macOS was only slightly behind that with 2,212, with Ubuntu in fifth place on 2,007.

So they count "Debian", which is an entire distro with thousands of packages, separately from "the Linux kernel" which is one component of a Linux system and already included in every other Linux distro. Does that mean the 2357 kernel vulnerabilities need to be subtracted from the 3067 Debian vulnerabilities, or have they already done that? Do the Debian vulnerabilities include only the kernel, core packages, or every package in the distribution (including Firefox, Thunderbird etc)? The article doesn't say, and the source data is not available since this is just a second-hand report of an "analysis" done by a random VPN company, not a proper scientific study.

In any case, comparing an entire Linux distro with just "Windows" isn't a valid comparison, because a Linux distro includes thousands of third-party packages. In order to make that a fair comparison you'd also need to include Microsoft Office and everything in the Microsoft store under the "Windows" heading.

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As for Microsoft’s operating systems, Windows 7 bore 1,283 vulnerabilities, and Windows 10 carried 1,111. If you add those together, you get a total of 2,394 for the past decade, roughly – given that Windows 7 came out in 2009, and handed the baton to Windows 10 in 2015.

I realise that everybody hated Windows 8, but I'm fairly sure that it didn't somehow magically vanish from history.

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Although note that some of the other figures mentioned represent a full two decades of existence – like Debian, which has been around since 1993

So they're potentially including a full 16 years of extra vulnerabilities to Debian, by ignoring all versions of Windows released before 2009? Yeah, I'm sure that makes absolutely no difference to the analysis.

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so it’s difficult to make direct comparisons in that respect.

No shit, Sherlock.

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Still, this serves to underline that Windows security is perhaps not as shaky as you might believe, at least historically, and indeed that Linux and Mac users shouldn’t be complacent.

They got something right at least. Nobody should be complacent about security, since all modern operating systems and software are affected by vulnerabilities, and need to be kept up-to-date with security patches.

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not to mention the debacle with the vulnerabilities discovered in most CPU's meltdown/spectre which in my opinion were much worse contenders since there is no easy fix (microcode patches that neuters a CPU's capabilities are not so nice a fix) tbh im kinda surprised that they got away with just a rap on the knuckles for that. The management engine in most CPU's is also a huge security risk as it allows remote execution without the user even being aware that somethings up.

software will newer be 100% safe thats a pipe dream.

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In any case, Windows cannot be blamed for being the most insecure OS, at least not in recent years, it is not, the only thing that can be criticized is privacy and the Bloatware that it contains by default, although it can be remedied by of the user.

 

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most is probably just bad rep spilling over from the win 9x days where security was indeed crap, but these days i cant point out more serious flaws in either OS. Windows has privacy issues these days but is no more susceptible to malicious code than any other OS. As for the privacy issues corps learned long ago that your data is worth its weight in gold and even linux based OS like android has not dodged that bullet, if something can be perverted it will be it is just the way it works in the corporate world. And unless our governments start limiting what they can do then your data is free game for them. EU has atleast limited it to some degree but it also has it's downsides because they dont want to piss of the corps to much the limitations are rather neutered.

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https://www.theregister.com/2023/05/15/eu_approves_microsoft_activision/

 

So yeah, it looks as though they are going to let the Microsoft cancer monopolize the entire game industry, one acquisition at a time. Playstations outsell Xboxes four to one because Microsoft completely torched their own reputation a decade ago with the Xbox One launch and people like me have no use for forgiveness when it comes to corporations.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/jun/19/xbox-one-drm-second-hand-restrictions-abandoned

 

Kind of like going on a date and confessing something heinously bad to your would-be girlfriend, in that it's nobody's fault but your own that your reputation is completely ruined, people don't trust you now and never will.

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Hah, I knew this was going on behind the scenes since day 1.

https://apnews.com/article/settlement-fake-public-comments-net-neutrality-ae1f69a1f5415d9f77a41f07c3f6c358

And by the way, that fine is laughable, like having to pay $5 for illegally dumping a mattress on the side of the road. It costs more than that to discard a mattress legally. "And don't do it again!"

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https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/05/potentially-millions-of-android-tvs-and-phones-come-with-malware-preinstalled/

 

Android is the new Windows 98. Except that in the days of Windows 98, you could easily erase the system and reinstall from fresh, officially pressed media if you had any reason not to trust it or think that it was compromised.

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13 hours ago, kano said:

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/05/potentially-millions-of-android-tvs-and-phones-come-with-malware-preinstalled/

 

Android is the new Windows 98. Except that in the days of Windows 98, you could easily erase the system and reinstall from fresh, officially pressed media if you had any reason not to trust it or think that it was compromised.

They always wanted to put an aluminum cap on me when I said that mobile phones are not secure devices to be used so happily with banking or administrative apps, not even to have other sensitive data on them.
Apart from the number of ads and trackers that manufacturers already put by default, any mediocre hacker can intercept them in a matter of seconds, as has been shown plenty in the past. A PC is not 100% secure either, but in exchange for a mobile you have infinitely more possibilities to protect the content
Comparing mobile phones with Windows 98 is falling short in terms of security. It is convenient to review the permissions that each app has and the corresponding PP that they have, to realize, adding to the OS conditions with security holes of a Swiss cheese and company logs, that the user walks with a sign with all his data hanging around the neck.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/03/16-attack-let-hacker-intercept-a-t-mobile-users-text-messages/

https://www.snexplores.org/article/smartphones-put-your-privacy-risk

https://theconversation.com/smartphone-data-tracking-is-more-than-creepy-heres-why-you-should-be-worried-91110

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heh yeah lately there was a major debacle here in denmark because of childrens app that turned out to expose everything from family meetings to your bank account, worse it did not only spy on them when they were playing but the mic and camera actually sent real time data streams to the developer and it could not be turned of by any means other than rolling the phone over with a steam roller 😟.

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I don't have rooted my phone, but, as I say, I also don't have any relevant data stored in it, I don't use apps from Google Play Store if possible, nor socialmedia apps, using as much as possible FOSS from F-Droid, one of them (recommended) InviZible Pro, and only connect to WiFi if needed (f.exmpl.updates), reviewed all the permissions of the apps I use, leaving them only strictly necessary and configured that they do not continue to be resident after use. Also an AV, because Google Play Protect is a joke, a better placebo.

Edited by Zerg Rush

Sys Specs Laptop Lenovo V145 15AST, AMD A9- 9425 Radeon R5 - 5 cores 3,1 GHz  RAM 8Gb, GPU 1+2 Gb -Win10 64 v21H2

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i use f-droid myself :) and dns66 to block unwanted crap from accessing my phone.

but ill have a look at the app you mentioned to ;). besides i dont use a slew of things on it, sadly in denmark you have to use the phone for allmost everything official unless you want to do stuff the hard way with keycards and tokens, nowadays we use it for banking (fingerprint needed if you dont want to use a token) and for any access to official instances (myid same crap as as above fingerprint needed).

and still they get hacked... 🤣  tbh i cant remember how many times some official instance have leaked private user data and if they dont leak it themself the data gets stolen... welcome to the new world hah.

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yep that thing was a monster 😅 sadly it does not support the things needed here in denmark or i would have been all over it :) had an older samsung which i rooted and installed my own distro on while not a "brick" like the nokia it was atleast not burdened with data stealing apps and i could use it for banking etc. sadly the the connection for the charger in the phone broke and it was to expensive to get it fixed.

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https://www.neowin.net/news/mozilla-stops-displaying-full-screen-vpn-ads-within-firefox-after-backlash/

 

Only having an option to say "Not Now", and not to say "No", is so slimy. It implies that they can ask you again a week from now, whereas everyone understands what "no" means. It means I don't want it, and if I change my mind, then I will let you know. I find this design aspect more offensive than the advertisement/interruption itself.

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15 hours ago, kano said:

https://www.neowin.net/news/mozilla-stops-displaying-full-screen-vpn-ads-within-firefox-after-backlash/

 

Only having an option to say "Not Now", and not to say "No", is so slimy. It implies that they can ask you again a week from now, whereas everyone understands what "no" means. It means I don't want it, and if I change my mind, then I will let you know. I find this design aspect more offensive than the advertisement/interruption itself.

I use Firefox as my primary browser and have never seen this popup, but I'm in Australia so it's possible the ads were only visible in certain locations. Or maybe there's a setting I disabled that normally allows the ad and I got lucky. Whatever the case this is still pretty poor from Mozilla and that bit about the "Not now" option is an example of a dark pattern in UI, where they won't give you a simple "No" option because they want to keep the idea in your mind after the popup has gone. It's infested so many web sites and software (and certain operating systems) and it's a pile of shit.

I get that Mozilla need to finance their operations but Firefox is supposed to hold itself to a higher standard than Google or Microsoft or the other scum who try such behaviour. That's why it's irritating when they feel the need to try such things.

A word of warning, Agent Denton. This was a simulated experience; real LAMs will not be so forgiving.

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Because of this and similar behavior tangential to the user interests of Mozilla, also reported by several users, I and a lot of others changed to Vivaldi. Also some Linux communities, in some of them use Vivaldi by default (Manjaro, FerenOS), most others have it in the repository. It is ironic that Mozilla becomes a mascot of Google, while this Chromium Browser from a small cooperative gives Google the middle finger in its browser, whose CEO is even active in initiatives against Google's invasive practices.

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Vivaldi has it's own inbuils ad and trackerblocker, customizable with the filters you want, nor it use surveillance advertisings or selling user data, 0 tracking no ads, it's business model are links and search engines it has by default (f.Exmpl. DDG, Ecosia and some others) when you download the browser, from these recives commissions when you use them, but you are free to delete them if not. That is a fair solution, apart also donations and a store with merch. Recently maybe also commissions from Mercedes, Renault and VAG, because they use Vivaldi in their navigators, because Vivaldi is the only Browser which works in these dispositives, not even Google has succeeded. Not bad for a so small company.

Also the ethics of a company is important.

Edited by Zerg Rush

Sys Specs Laptop Lenovo V145 15AST, AMD A9- 9425 Radeon R5 - 5 cores 3,1 GHz  RAM 8Gb, GPU 1+2 Gb -Win10 64 v21H2

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8 hours ago, Zerg Rush said:

Also the ethics of a company is important.

Very true, but if that's the case then Vivaldi is a bit of an oddity. Despite using Chromium the browser isn't actually open source, it's more of a hybrid between open source and proprietary code. Which is fine, except that if you consider ethics important, moving away from a pure FOSS browser (Firefox) to one that's part proprietary (Vivaldi) seems like the wrong direction... unless it's a compromise with features vs licensing, which I kinda understand. In the end though it's still a browser using Chromium as its rendering engine which means that no matter what position they have publically against Google, they're still relying on Google tech for the most important part of the browser. The browser monoculture keeps marching on...

A word of warning, Agent Denton. This was a simulated experience; real LAMs will not be so forgiving.

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1 hour ago, Xolvix said:

Very true, but if that's the case then Vivaldi is a bit of an oddity. Despite using Chromium the browser isn't actually open source, it's more of a hybrid between open source and proprietary code. Which is fine, except that if you consider ethics important, moving away from a pure FOSS browser (Firefox) to one that's part proprietary (Vivaldi) seems like the wrong direction... unless it's a compromise with features vs licensing, which I kinda understand. In the end though it's still a browser using Chromium as its rendering engine which means that no matter what position they have publically against Google, they're still relying on Google tech for the most important part of the browser. The browser monoculture keeps marching on...

Ehm, it's not so easy. It is true that part of the script referring to the UI is proprietary licensed, but fully auditable and even modifiable by the user, they even teach how to do it (of course at your own risk).

There were internal debates about this topic and why they don't release this 5% of the code. The reasons are very clear when looking at the current browser market, 80% monopolized by Chrome and Edge, apart from endless forks of all kinds based on Chromium. Vivaldi is a small cooperative with a small market share, but with absolutely unique features, based on this protected little part of the script that everyone tries to imitate, early Chrome and Edge, albeit with poor results. If Vivaldi releases this code, the result would be the end of Vivaldi, a Chrome that monopolizes these functions and ends up completely dominating the market, with no one to shadow it.


FOSS is a good thing, allowing to share and collaborate in the development of new software, which is the main task of this system, but in the case of Browsers, where there are already more than 100 forks of all kinds of Blink mainly, Whether it is a FOSS product or not becomes secondary, all of them can create and share development with the base that is 100% FOSS, mainly in the way of removing the influence of Google and MS from this base, Provide Google with the possibility of making these modifications their own will be the end for others, handing over the market to Google.


The ethics of the company has nothing to do with this, it is expressed in the ethics it has with the user and this has nothing to do with whether it is FOSS or not.
See the example with Firefox, it's 100% FOSS and its poor user ethic with things Vivaldi would never do. In the 7 Jears I used this Browser Ive seen the Devs even working and releasing patches in Sundays to fix small bugs. They work on base of most voted feature requests of the user, offering, apart from the browser a free mail account and a blog for private use, apart a Mastodon instance included in the account and full user support with the team members active in the community forum, even with Jon von Tetzchner itself as often as he can, if he isn't occupied with conferences from EEUU to Japan because of Security and privacy themes, promoting EU tech in Belgium in collaboration with europena Tech centers.

 

 

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Interesting. Well I hope Vivaldi is able to flourish and continue its efforts at being the best browser it can. Unfortunately it's all too common in the tech industry, once you've grown to a certain size, to become the very thing you sought to destroy. But I guess the most important thing is that we continue to have options.

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A word of warning, Agent Denton. This was a simulated experience; real LAMs will not be so forgiving.

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