Since I was bored I played Thief Deadly Shadows again

[Bikerdude]

The crappy manteling and player movement it what's stopping me from doing another playthrough of this game.

[lowenz]

You're

 

The crappy manteling and player movement it what's stopping me from doing another playthrough of this game.

You're SO right

[lowenz]

Same treatment for DXIW:

 

Edited October 1, 2018 by lowenz

[Anderson]

The crappy manteling and player movement it what's stopping me from doing another playthrough of this game.

 

I can understand the manteling but not the player movement.

 

The crashes at Wieldstrom Museum are understandable too but player movement seems more smooth and less jumpy than in TDM. Especially in FPS with the hands and the legs.

[peter_spy]

 

but player movement seems more smooth and less jumpy than in TDM.

 

You gotta be kidding. Are we talking about the same game?

[Anderson]

 

You gotta be kidding. Are we talking about the same game?

 

 

Overall TDM has good points but during combat Thief : Deadly Shadows is definitely smoother. It just feels good to have hands and legs too. Maybe same feeling with Mount & Blade and the impression it gives with the fighting system. Though obviously the general movement there is jerky.

Edited October 1, 2018 by Anderson

[peter_spy]

Body awareness looks weird even in more "complete state" in Thief 4, as it reacts in sudden manner to every key press, there's not much of animation blending we often see in third person games.

 

As for smooth movement, try doing this in Deadly Shadows:

 

...and you'll get jerky movement and floating Garrett bug by 3rd or 4th jump

[Anderson]

 

...and you'll get jerky movement and floating Garrett bug by 3rd or 4th jump

 

Okay, well that's a bug so it's unintended. Most people play very calm though (as I imagine).

 

Mostly it's a thing of taste with the body depiction in FPS.

 

Also the current Thief : Deadly Shadows animations in third person are better than the analogic thing in TDM.

Edited October 1, 2018 by Anderson

[peter_spy]

TDS tried focusing on both 1st and 3rd person view, and none of them is good. TDM focuses on 1st person view, 3rd person view is optional. That's why 1st person view is so smooth and can be very versatile, from slow gameplay to speedruns or chase sequences. It's just there aren't maps that use this potential yet. Still, none of the Thief games has this level of smoothness and responsiveness, regardless of playstyle.

[Anderson]

TDS tried focusing on both 1st and 3rd person view, and none of them is good. TDM focuses on 1st person view, 3rd person view is optional. That's why 1st person view is so smooth and can be very versatile, from slow gameplay to speedruns or chase sequences. It's just there aren't maps that use this potential yet. Still, none of the Thief games has this level of smoothness and responsiveness, regardless of playstyle.

 

Point taken. I just like the choice of TDS with 3'rd person view and it was well done IMHO just as much as the FPS. The impression that I get from TDS is just like with Deus Ex Invisible War - they are not games supposed to be played like Quake on a speedrun. They are slower games. Smaller maps, more nitpicking and looking around, whereas T1 and T2 had these huge corridors of emptiness. So obviously you ran through them fast enough. TDM avoided those corridors thankfully. So, yeah definitely lots of potential for TDM.

 

But TDS isn't that bad.

Edited October 1, 2018 by Anderson

[Springheel]

TDM focuses on 1st person view, 3rd person view is optional.

 

It's more accurate to say that TDM doesn't even attempt to support 3rd person view, although it can be hacked in.

 

Overall TDM has good points but during combat Thief : Deadly Shadows is definitely smoother

 

 

TDS doesn't really have "combat". It just has the player playing a swinging animation and doing damage, more like our blackjack than our sword. There's no directionality, no weapon collision...you're not really comparing the same thing.

 

The one thing that used to bug the hell out of me with TDS movement was how each time you leaned, you moved a bit to the side. Lean two or three times and you'd fall right off a beam. That, and how looking behind you made footstep sounds.

[peter_spy]

Btw. there's another thing that makes walking on widest beams difficult. Try walking straight, then turn around only with your mouse, and then press your Forward key. That circular movement was a show-stopper for me, beams would have to be like 64 units wide to accomodate for this.

[chakkman]

I used to like movement in TDS, back when i played it through the first 2 times. Now, movement seems pretty clumsy, also compared to TDM. I think TDM has the best movement of all the Thief's, it's really well done. Whenever i play the first 2 Thief's now, i miss the mantle, and silent falling of TDM.

[HMart]

Body awareness looks weird even in more "complete state" in Thief 4, as it reacts in sudden manner to every key press, there's not much of animation blending we often see in third person games.

 

As for smooth movement, try doing this in Deadly Shadows:

 

...and you'll get jerky movement and floating Garrett bug by 3rd or 4th jump

 

I also agree that TDM movement is much smoother than all old thief games, is based on Doom 3 fps controls and idsoftware really knows how to make awesome FPS controls, TDS specially to me, feels contrived because of the full body awareness, that btw, i've yet to play a game where it didn't felt odd to me, almost like i'm being pulled back by a string every time i want to go forward, especially jarring on Dark Messiah.

 

Btw Judith i like how you do your play testing, makes me think that your mission, if that is what your making, will have well thought out gameplay, at lest has parkouring is concerned.

Edited October 2, 2018 by HMart

[peter_spy]

Thanks, this is one of the optional concepts, it won't be necessary to use any routes like this one

 

That said, I still like the atmosphere and the art style of TDS. Hopefully in time Snobel adds more fixes to it, better player animations and mouse smoothing would be very welcome

[Oktokolo]

I would not call TDM's movement "smooth" - it is quite the opposite. And that exactly is what makes it superior to any of the AAA title's. No circling around or animation blending that we would have to wait for. The avatar instantly reacts exactly as commanded like expected in an FPS engine. That is what allows us to turn on the spot and walk the smallest beams with ease.

Only thing missing are some visible feet to better show the distance to the abyss...

[chakkman]

Same treatment for DXIW:

 

 

I really like the artwork of Deus Ex 2. If only the levels wouldn't be so claustrophobic.

[JackFarmer]

But TDS isn't that bad.

 

2nd

 

And my esteem for it skyrocketed after the release of Thief2014.

Edited October 2, 2018 by JackFarmer

[Anderson]

 

2nd

 

And my esteem for it skyrocketed after the release of Thief2014.

 

Maybe something similar happens to one of the Deus Ex sequels for people to appreciate Deus Ex Invisible War?

[lowenz]

Mankind Divided is not so different as a failed sequel.....

[peter_spy]

Since Human revolution was actually pretty damn good, then no. But I really like DX:IW soundtrack, I listen to it regularly to this day.

[lowenz]

I say MD is a failed sequel (to HR) like IW.

 

Maybe a *FUTURE* DX title can do the same for MD as T2014 has done for IW

Edited October 2, 2018 by lowenz

[chakkman]

I say MD is a failed sequel (to HR) like IW.

 

I know i smited Mankind Divided, before i gave it another chance. Now, i'd say it is better in almost all regards, compared to HR. Really had a lot of fun with it.

[lowenz]

It's a fun game to PLAY, but the story - and some good plot twists - is really non-existant

Edited October 2, 2018 by lowenz

[chakkman]

Dunno, i found it had a story. Although, typically, i play such a game for the atmosphere, gameplay, game world, and the quests. You know, if you do all the side quests, you can easily forget about the main story completely...