Guards Never Settle Down

[Elentarien]

Ok, so I've been playing the standalone version for a bit now and for awhile there, I had a LOT of trouble with blackjacking.

 

After watching the videos here about it, and taking the trainer, etc. I finally realized its because the mission I was so stuck on ALL the guards had their swords out. Every last one of them. Grrrr. So I restarted the mission - and got through it much better.

 

Now I'm playing another - and am running into the same difficulty. I ran face first into a guard, and the whole place got alerted as I went tearing through there trying to find a place to hide. Finally got away by leaving the building entirely, waiting awhile and creeping back in. But, now - once again - every single guard in the place is on high alert, their swords drawn and even though they have no idea I"m there, they are not 'settling down' and going back to their jobs. IE, they are not resheathing their swords at all. If I could ghost the mission, I'd be ok, but there are some parts I can't dawdle in long enough to pick locks becasue they're too brightly lit and the patrol routes are too short. (A Thief's Vengeance, Pt 2, in case you're wondering. Some of those exhibits and corridors are too well lit. )

 

I thought if I let the game run for awhile, the guards would eventually forget about me and simmer down. But. . .despite letting it run in the background for a few hours, they are still stalking around waving their swords at every shadow.

 

So, I guess, the question is. . .am I glitched or is this part of the programming and do I have to restart the mission *again* to get them to calm down? I even looked through the options to see if there was a way to shorten their alert times. . .but I didn't see anything. Pfft.

 

Thanks!

[grayman]

When a guard becomes alerted enough to draw his sword, he will never sheath it again, unless the map author has set it up on an AI-by-AI basis for them to sheath their weapons when they calm down. (And that's rare.)

 

An alerted guard will warn other guards he meets about the event he witnessed, and they in turn will tell others. This cascade of warnings will travel outward from the incident point, up to a certain distance depending on the alert type. For example, a warning about a missing item won't travel as far as one about spotting an enemy.

[Elentarien]

Mrrfff! So you literally have to restart if you want things to be quiet again. -sigh- Ok

 

Is there a way to BJ them if they are on that high alert?

 

I tried killing one, but he just stood there and threw rocks at me instead of dying. Hah! (why he didn't chase me is anyone's guess. There was nothing stopping him!)

 

Thanks for explaining that to me.

[New Horizon]

Guards alerted by a sound will resheathe their sword and settle down, but if a guard has actually seen you the sword will remain out.

[Elentarien]

Guards alerted by a sound will resheathe their sword and settle down, but if a guard has actually seen you the sword will remain out.

 

So much for that 'thrill' of escaping and being able to go back in to finish the job. *sniffs* Oh well, I guess those insane dashes through an area when you're threatened is never a great idea anyway.

[grayman]

Guards alerted by a sound will resheathe their sword and settle down, but if a guard has actually seen you the sword will remain out.

 

Yes, that's correct. I forgot. The less important events will allow an AI to sheath his weapon.

 

But--yeah--running through a map will draw unwanted attention.

[RJFerret]

\Oh well, I guess those insane dashes through an area when you're threatened is never a great idea anyway.

Depends how many flashbombs you might have? ;p

[Sotha]

A guard having a sword out is not much different from a guard that doesn't. You can still KO them and stuff.

 

The main difference, I think, is that they don't need to spend time pulling out their sword if they see you again.

 

So it is not a gamestopper.

[New Horizon]

A helmeted guard with a sword drawn is immune to being blackjacked. Only non-helmeted guards can be blackjacked while alert, but only from behind.

[Elentarien]

Depends how many flashbombs you might have? ;p

 

Yeah. . .two against an entire squadron of guards doesn't go very far. . .unless you get really clever. But, in my experience, even in Thief itself, to do that, you had to have a 'high point' or somewhere you could lure them all out safely, then flash/gas them when they all got there.

 

And yeah, I think New Horizon is right. I spent two hours working on blackjacking a guard (with a helmet) with his sword out on that first mission I was stuck on. Before I caught on to the fact that he was on high alert already. NOTHING I tried worked (didn't have any equipment, either, except the BJ). But he did have a helmet on, too. So far, the missions I've played, I haven't seen many guards without helmets. pfft. I'll just restart and keep this in mind for the future. I'm glad I"m not glitched. I think it takes me a while to 'clue in' to the fact their swords are out and they're different. We're so used to seeing guards in Thief with their swords already drawn, it doesn't always click right away that these ones are different and you need to fall back a bit.

[Matoro]

If you get spot by a guard (and you don't want to quickload, because quickloads are for puss*** ), you can try these 3 things which works for me

1. Hide in the shadows, and use objects to distract the guard else where.

2. [breaks immersion slightly] Circle strafe trying to steal everything in the vicinity while the guard is chasing you. That includes climbing on stuffs.

3. [Warning! This really breaks immersion!] THIS IS SPARTA! Stab the mo-fos! It is really easy to kill guards in Thief1,2,3(?) and TDM. Rarely do you need to block. Just quickly go for headshots or armshots (if they are wearing armor), step back when they are about to swing, then step forward again and repeat the process.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Matoro

[RJFerret]

...step back when they are about to swing, then step forward again and repeat the process.

 

This has been resolved with 2.01 (the exploit of them not being able to hit you when you move backward was closed).

[Sotha]

A helmeted guard with a sword drawn is immune to being blackjacked. Only non-helmeted guards can be blackjacked while alert, but only from behind.

 

Haha! Looks like I need to KO people more...

[Deadlove]

Haha! Looks like I need to KO people more...

 

Yes, I'd be much better at playing your FM's on harder difficulty if there wasn't a KO limit of 2 people!!

[Elentarien]

Heh I've been doing that too - playing things on a lower difficulty because of that KO limit. I'm NOT a good ghoster. I mean, I can do it, but if I get stuck, or miss something, I get really frustrated having to criss-cross the same area a billion times and avoid the same guards dozens of times trying to find whatever I missed. I end up knocking them out, just to get them out of my way. Or, in a case like this FM I just finished. . .the routes were too short for me to work with and there wasn't enough places to hide without going back a fairly long way. It was easier to get them all out of the way. And, yeah, now I know that the drawn sword basically means I screwed up, I can be a bit more careful about my saves and paying attention to whether or not they put those swords away.

 

And, Matoro. . .I don't stand and fight. I always run away. General policy of not killing anything - though if I get really frustrated I might try sniping an irritating guard from afar, but that rarely works (specially not in here where they can throw rocks at you!! Eeek!) Its easier to just whack them upside the head, or run away. But apparently in here, running away isn't a terribly good tactic. So. . ..I guess they all get headaches. Thats actually one thing I have always loved about Thief. . .the killing is unnecessary. I always get so frustrated with games that make you kill your way across a map . . and if you have to criss-cross it, its even more tiresome. (Sure, I play them a little, but they do get tiresome!) With Thief. . .and with TDM. . .killing is not generally part of the plan. And its a nice change. Less violence, more stealth. . .more story. Yay!

[RJFerret]

You can run away, without a flashbomb even, the trick is to round a bend, or something similar, so their eyes aren't directly on you, duck into a shadow and stop running!

 

The trick is timing the line of sight with crouching/stopping when you are in enough darkness. (Two nights ago I did it circling a statue.) It also helps to strafe so you can see where they are in relation to you.

[Matoro]

(Sure, I play them a little, but they do get tiresome!) With Thief. . .and with TDM. . .killing is not generally part of the plan. And its a nice change. Less violence, more stealth. . .more story. Yay!

 

Hmm, maybe next time I play a mission in TDM, I should have a mindset/immersion feel that these AI are real people in some other world - So I don't always end up killing them when I get spotted. :/

[Elentarien]

Hmm, maybe next time I play a mission in TDM, I should have a mindset/immersion feel that these AI are real people in some other world - So I don't always end up killing them when I get spotted. :/

 

Its a good way to play. : ) Its kind of fun to imagine their reactions when they wake up. . .or what they'll think when they find you've just swiped something from under their noses. Of course, then you get to deal with feeling guilty at the end of a job. . .because you've probably just cost all those people their jobs. . .But apparently not too guilty, because we do it again in the very next FM!

[RJFerret]

In the mission I'm finishing up, there are ramifications, and you get to see the results of previous activities!

[Elentarien]

Sounds interesting RJFerret. : ) I'll look forward to it.

 

Yeah, sometimes I get a bit caught between what you're doing to people. . .and the fact that it IS just a game. (And, in that type of society, I think people actually did end up having to steal just to survive. Doesn't make it right, but sort of understandable in the world we're playing in.) But you feel kind of bad for getting other people in trouble while you sneak around. Then I get frustrated because they keep getting in my way and end up whacking them upside the head anyway. rotflol I do like Thief and this one, though. . .how you have the option to mostly leave people alone.

 

I'll be interested to see how you handle things!

[Jinix]

 

 

This has been resolved with 2.01 (the exploit of them not being able to hit you when you move backward was closed).

How can that not be okay?

In real life avoiding a hit is done by stepping out of the way?

Edited February 10, 2014 by Jinix

[New Horizon]

How can that not be okay?

In real life avoiding a hit is done by stepping out of the way?

 

If I recall the bug correctly, stepping backward caused the AI to not be able to attack you at all. It's not a matter of them missing because you stepped backward.

[Springheel]

The issue was that AI stopped moving forward when they started swinging their sword, so if you walked backwards you were out of reach by the time the sword got to you. Now AI continue moving forward while attacking. You can still dodge them, but it takes more effort.

[RJFerret]

*nods, there's a difference between becoming invulnerable by doing nothing other than holding the back key and actively reacting to movements of your opponent. :-)