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Deadlove

Player with reverb...

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Next sound contribution...

 

Here's a link to a zip file with the player sounds revisited, there's slight reverb + compression.

 

LINK REMOVED UNTIL SOUND SET FIXED

 

INSTRUCTIONS:

Download and extract the .ogg files into the tdm_sounds_vocals1/sound/voices/playler and it will replace all the current sounds with the new ones. I'd recommend backing up the original .ogg files first, so you can revert back to them. Run the game and it will play the new sounds.

 

INFO:

Again, plenty of variation on amplitude. Reverb density is again within the -15dB to -21dB range. Much more gentle compression this time around, no sounds went any farther than 2dB from where they started.

 

 

Is the player_hmm_1 supposed to be stretched out like that in comparison to the others? I guess so, stood out to me.

 

I don't remember hearing the "hmm" set or the "sigh", what triggers the player to make these sounds?

 

 

 

Again, hope to get another character done soon.

Any and all feedback in welcome! Please share opinions on what you guys think!

Edited by Deadlove

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Not all sounds are used by default. Mission authors can trigger them, however.

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The reverb, to me at least, gives me the illusion that an AI is going to hear me e.g. when I quaff down a potion, or when I grunt while mantling -- neither of which is true. Player sounds don't propogate.

 

I've always thought of the player sounds, even grunts, as a soliloquy playing in my own head, not out loud. So the dry original sounds would probably be truer to that concept.

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yay seuss crease touss dome in ouss nose tair

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Try applying the reverb only on the footstep sounds for this maybe :)


"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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Thanks for the comments guys! I actually was very mindful of the reverb being a bit overbearing for the player, so I toned it down a bunch. Do you still think it's too much?

 

About the sounds propagating, I wasn't aware that AI does not respond to grunts from mantling, etc. I actually was under the impression that they did, as grunting in real life would be audible, but I guess this makes for better gameplay audio aesthetic than no sound at all, even if it is not recognized by AI. I do think that the landing sounds are better with the verb on them, and I do know that if you land hard it would alert AI in Thief (at least if you land on tile / stone). Are all the player sounds inaudible for AI to hear, or just some of them? Or do the sounds of the player landing only alert AI if it's a footstep sound (which is not a player sound), and the grunting sounds don't matter?

 

The only sounds I thought ever really applied to being "inside the head of the player" were voice overs, as in some FM's (NOAT) and obviously the classic Garrett lines from Thief. Thanks for clarification.

 

For the footsteps, I'm going to need a bit of instruction, because it seems that they are cut into pieces (like the movement of guard's armor + revenant chains). Adding reverb to them individually would sound incorrect. Am I correct to think that if I line the individual files up back to back in order, then they will play as if there is a continuity? I haven't checked for myself, but if this is true, then I can use that method, apply reverb to the sounds all at once, and then chop them back up.

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Fottsteps are played randomly from the available list (e.g. for stone footsteps).


"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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Thanks. I'll have to experiment with it, because for whenever the player stops walking/running/crouched, there needs to be enough of a tail to fade off, but at same time, it can't be longer than the original file to make the fluidity still the same. Very subtle indeed. The AI movement sounds + footsteps will probably the most challenging aspect of this sound revisiting, as they are not individual barks, but sounds that are played back to back.

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About the sounds propagating, I wasn't aware that AI does not respond to grunts from mantling, etc. I actually was under the impression that they did, as grunting in real life would be audible, but I guess this makes for better gameplay audio aesthetic than no sound at all, even if it is not recognized by AI.

I believe they were originally going to be some clothing rustling, but I never got to recording and implementing them. I think the grunts were used just because they were available and more convenient. But yes, they were added for mere aesthetic value.

 

I do think that the landing sounds are better with the verb on them, and I do know that if you land hard it would alert AI in Thief (at least if you land on tile / stone). Are all the player sounds inaudible for AI to hear, or just some of them? Or do the sounds of the player landing only alert AI if it's a footstep sound (which is not a player sound), and the grunting sounds don't matter?

As far as I can tell from the definition, no player sounds other than footsteps have sound propagation properties. Some would make sense to have reverb applied -- such as the death shouts, or the the landing grunts (because they're accompanied by loud propagated footfalls.)

 

For the footsteps, I'm going to need a bit of instruction, because it seems that they are cut into pieces (like the movement of guard's armor + revenant chains). Adding reverb to them individually would sound incorrect. Am I correct to think that if I line the individual files up back to back in order, then they will play as if there is a continuity? I haven't checked for myself, but if this is true, then I can use that method, apply reverb to the sounds all at once, and then chop them back up.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with the inner workings of sound shaders, but here goes:

 

OGGs or WAVs are very very rarely pointed to by themselves. They are instead put into a sound shader definition (*.sndshd). That tells the engine certain properties about the sound, such as: volume, whether or not to loop, where the OGG files are, how much decay with in-game distance, and more. Most commonly, a sound shader is made so that one sound can be randomly chosen out of a collection (e.g. choose one footstep OGG out of eight).

 

When an AI is walking around and running its walking animation, there are certain points in the anim that will tell a soundshader to play one of its random OGGs. It ends up looking like this in the definition:

anim walk1				  models/md5/chars/guards/proguard/walk.md5anim
{
	frame 8	 footstep
	frame 16	sound snd_rustle
	frame 25	footstep
	frame 33	sound snd_rustle
}

 

EDIT: To answer your question: you could add some subtle reverb to the armor clink-clank or clothes rustling, and it would probably be fine.

 

I, personally, think that it is unnecessary. The rustle of chainmail and the clatter of armour is something that is generally audible only when quite close to the AI. The illusion of distance and loudness caused by adding reverb would sound out-of-place. I could be wrong, though.

 

EDIT 2: The revenant chain rustles have bugged me for a while. They sound like placeholders hastily cut out of some other SFX.


yay seuss crease touss dome in ouss nose tair

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Thanks Mortem for in depth info.

 

Am I correct from reading that code to understand that footsteps are played in between chain mail/clothing rustling and then back to footstep and then back to clothes rustle? If that is the case, then I will have to be that much more coordinated with adding reverb because the sounds depend on each other to give a realistic movement/walking combination together.

 

If this is the case, at least I will get to knock out the two areas I think will present the most challenge together. But the challenge should be that much more of a challenge. :laugh:

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Why is it that bad when two footstep reverbs overlap?


"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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I don't think that the reverb will overlap, I think the sound that plays back will cut off abruptly and then the next sound will start to play. At least, that's how the game responded to grumbler AI barks. If the grumbler was in the middle of a bark, and then said something else, the first one would cut off abruptly.

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I experimented with reverb on footsteps last year a bit and I didn't experience any cut off, maybe it was not long enough. So my tip would be to make only a short reverb :)


"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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Ahh yes! I remember your thread. Do you remember if you make the reverb trail off longer than the existing sound file at all? Or was it the same length as the existing sound file?

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No it was a bit longer than the original file (can't say how much though), but I guess you have to test things out especially with running / jumping player and running ai. :unsure:

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"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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