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Fan Mission: Cleighmoor (by grayman) (2014/3/1)


grayman

Cleighmoor  

61 members have voted

  1. 1. Gameplay: Enjoyment, fun duration, smooth flow, etc. vs Bugs, boredom, frustration, frame lag

  2. 2. Appearance: Visual pleasure, lighting, visual style, deduct for bad texturing, etc.

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    • Tolerable
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    • Good
    • Excellent
    • Near Perfect
  3. 3. Story: Story and text, briefing, graphic storytelling

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Just playing this and I've almost completed it.

 

Found the well too, but

 

 

If I dive there, the water is completely green. I cannot see anything, because it is completely opaque. Am I missing something?

 

I want to examine that place before ending this mission: it looks too interesting to miss out.

 

 

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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Ok.

 

 

 

After a few tries of totally blind diving I reached the location.

 

Mission completed. Stealth score 13, and I got all the objectives. Two hours of gameplay.

 

An excellent mission. I liked pretty much everything.

 

The sewer was a nice appetizer for the main course (prison). I liked how you had fleshed the location out and gave it history. That was very nice touch.

 

Visuals were excellent and highly detailed. Performance was 100% everywhere.

 

Plot was good. Readables were interesting. Again, extra bonus points for fleshing out the location. It really came alive with all the history and background. Heck, seeing the zooming map in the briefing already placed the location into the world and made me expect to really feel that there was a living pulsing world outside the play area. This is a good lesson to other mappers: skybox, map and readables can really make the place feel real.

 

The patrols were interesting and it was nice to get the keys from the guards. In general, the mission was on the easy side, but then again, I KO'd a few of the lantern guards to reduce the risks.

 

The mission could have used some more variety in the ambient musics. The one same song playing all the time was getting a bit repetitive.

 

I'm still puzzled about the well. Was it really supposed to be a totally blind dive? I glitched between the air-water interface and there was a few pixel dive depth where the green opaque haze was not painted on my screen. That way I could determine the overall direction where to go. Because of this, the dive, at least for me, felt a bit glitchy. Everything left me wondering if this *REALLY* was the right way to do it. That I missed some kind of ritual or trick (diving goggles) that would have made a True Seeker to see clearly in the water?

 

The dream part interesting, and the haze-effect was nice, but it wasn't exactly my cup of tea. Sure it was first very spooky, but there wasn't much interesting gameplay there. After realizing there was not much real danger in there the spookiness went away and it felt a bit flat/stale. However, it was nice to see some plot-connections to readables in there, like the hater-brothers. Lots of nice ideas there.

 

 

 

So all in all, a typical grayman mission, which could be characterized with a single word: excellent. Thank you so much!

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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"I'm still puzzled about the well. Was it really supposed to be a totally blind dive?"

 

Yes. The idea was to make it so you can't see the bottom. The tunnel is supposed to be hidden to some extent, and the guards patrolling at the top would have less interest in what was down there if they couldn't see it.

 

"I glitched between the air-water interface and there was a few pixel dive depth where the green opaque haze was not painted on my screen."

 

Even though this helped you orient yourself, it's a known TDM bug and I filed an issue for it a long time ago. The water murkiness doesn't start painting at the frame where your eyes drop below the water surface, and it should.

 

 

 

Glad you enjoyed it!

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  • 1 month later...

Finally finished that mission, and I have a definitive Love/Hate relationship with it.

The mission design was fantastic, but never before I was so frustrated by NPCs.

On the other hand that changed my playstyle, which was a nice change.

(Details that might be spoilers below)

 

 

Those many guards with Lamps where quite a frustration, At first I thought I would go the usual way and ghost (more or less) the mission, A while it worked quite well. But the constant movement of many guards with lamps and the dark places made the exploring so tedious I stopped my ghost run and began taking out those guards. Took quite a time to NOT kill them.

And finally I had explored everything in peace and could go above...

The final nail in being silent and taking them out from behind began there, when first the guy with torch spread more light than the stationary torches, and then I was caught between two torch bearers with no way to not get seen. Running, diving, hiding, trying to take certain people out to move more freely (that outside of the jail is really crowded, and then the final nail:

There was no way to pull people along the grating near the water. You couldn't get a grip there. That meant not pulling them under it, and further no good hiding place. I didn't want to drown them, had to take out more that came near the hiding space next to the jail stairs, missed some, decided to clear everything.

Hit a few people on their full metal helmets (my fault for not looking close enough / mistake one guard for another with a different helmet, because i thought there was only one)

Finally taking a few people out with dropped crates => fun moments.

 

So all in all quite a few frustrations, but when I decided to play along it worked nicely.

 

I still was quite frustrated that I couldn't free Grue without failing the mission, after reading that journal of Warden Fielder it might be nice to "un-dangerous" him, because I would guess he is marked that way in the book about the prisoners, because the Warden wants to get rid of him.

For a simple theft he doesn't deserve to be left there, in my eyes.

 

And I couldn't find that ring that Mackie Note spoke about, not sure if it is there? (Then again I missed 1000 in Loot and have no idea where, so I guess I missed something big or lots of small things)

 

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@DX: thanks for playing. Sorry for the frustrating moments. On the flip side, some folks complain that my missions are too easy, and one beta tester even complained when I removed torches from some NPCs in Home Again.

 

 

 

Mackie's lost ring is indeed there. His note mentions that a rat stole it, and if you watch where the rat near the water wheel travels, you'll note that at one point he disappears into a wall near the generator. A few rings are sitting on the floor just outside his hidey-hole.

 

I'm not sure what "pull people along the grating near the water" means.

 

Grue's a nasty fellow, and probably deserves to be hung several times over anyway.

 

 

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Sorry I'm late with this but congrats on the release. (almost missed it because it was listed as a translation in my in game downloader but realized if its a translation than there must be a release.) Anyways enjoying it for the most part but have become

frustrated with the search for the warden's secret room so would like a hint. I've spent probably two hours in total looking inside and out, top to bottom of his room and area. I've circled the prison many times even went back through the sewer checking things again. Thought it would be near his desk since he had instructed the cleaning staff to not bother dusting, also checked his certificate and have slashed and stabbed at everything in there. Am I even close? Missing something, I know, as no one else has seemed to have this much difficulty finding it so any hint would be appreciated.

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Finished this up today and what can I say - AWESOME! mission grayman!

Thanks for the hint yesterday - usually careful in my search of things but I guess I was going by the book shelf to fast to catch the highlight. I enjoyed the story you put together for everyone, the only thing I was bothered by was the dream sequence. I wasn't sure what was happening, thought I'd been drugged so was trying to hide and search at the same time. LOL! Once I realized no one could see me I took my time looking around. Rather enjoyed being in their face and they couldn't do anything to me! Found all the loot and only blackjacked those in the sewer & one in the cell area. So change of pace for me, thanks for that.

Look forward to the next installment - seems like there's more beyond the house - if there is one. If not looking forward to more missions from you.

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  • 1 month later...

@DX: thanks for playing. Sorry for the frustrating moments. [...]

 

 

 

Mackie's lost ring is indeed there. His note mentions that a rat stole it, and if you watch where the rat near the water wheel travels, you'll note that at one point he disappears into a wall near the generator. A few rings are sitting on the floor just outside his hidey-hole.

 

I'm not sure what "pull people along the grating near the water" means.

 

Grue's a nasty fellow, and probably deserves to be hung several times over anyway.

 

 

 

Well, you can't have everything. Nothing to be sorry about. As you read, I had my fun once I decided to kick over my usual playstyle, so it was refreshing.

 

 

 

Nice detail, found the rings now, nice little detail, I like such things. Didn't find the rat there though, not exactly sure why, but I think one rat was killed by a guard, or drowned, or something, at least I found a body of a rat.

 

Good to know about Grue, hadn't found evidence of any sort other than that he is a thief. Couldn't help but sympathize a bit in that case ;-)

 

More details for the grating near the water: where the moat is, on one side of it there is the way down to the cells. If, from that point, you walk over the bridge of the moat, to the left there is a hole in the wall, with grating below it, on which you can crouch walk. Water below the grating (I think the water below is where you had to dive to get the money bag someone dropped), wall above in that little space. You come out a short way after that, where the regular way over the bridge an on and that little hole come together.

And when In dropped a body on that grating, I could not drag it along, it stuck there somehow. I just could pick it up - and the engine doesnt allow to drop it then under the wall, which is the reason why i tried to drag the body there.

Hope that makes it clearer what place I mean.

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Finally getting back to doing a little playing, and I'm about an hour into this one. I'm playing on Difficult,

 

and I have to say that the first sewer section is probably the most challenging area I've ever played in TDM. With all the AI carrying lanterns and the water on the ground, it's nearly impossible to sneak around (and even worse, the fog keeps me from being able to see guards at the other end of long passages). After getting caught about ten times, I finally had to resort to something of an exploit, by just running through them so that the guards became alerted, at which point they dropped their lanterns. I then hid in the one area they couldn't reach (behind the barrels) and after that I was able to proceed through.

 

Did have a funny moment while in the spooky dig area. I was convinced something was going to jump out and get me after stealing the loot there, so I was very tense as I grabbed the last couple of plates. Suddenly, the fan I had on in my office blew a couple pieces of paper off my desk behind me and I was so startled I yelped and ran for the ladder.

 

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@Spring,

 

 

 

Yeah, the sewer's a bit difficult. I toughened it up after getting feedback that my previous missions were too easy. Getting the guards to drop their lanterns is a pretty innovative way of getting through it, though.

 

That's funny about the fan and the papers. I've had those moments myself.

 

Hope you enjoy the rest of it.

 

 

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Well, last night I poked around the goal (after a slight bit of difficulty getting inside). Inside I felt much more comfortable, with clear maps and some ideas of where I might want to go. Managed to get into the armoury and clear it out in between patrols, which was tense. Then headed down to the cells. I hopped over the counter and swapped the key while the guard was out...should have put out a light somewhere, because when he and a buddy came back they immediately went on alert. "Someone's stolen it!" "Raise the alarm; we got a thief!" I unlocked the cell door and hurried inside, locking it behind me. I explored around and basically guessed which one had the fence in it--got lucky, and was amused by his chirpy "Greetings!" as he ran past me.

Now I'm about to head out of the cells, and I'm wondering what kind of hornet's nest I've stirred up.

 

Btw, did you use some kind of fog effect inside the goal? I've noticed that the corners often look darker than the surrounding walls, almost like ambient occlusion.

 

edit: was playing for a bit, then all the sudden failed the mission, with the "don't kill anyone" objective marked with an X. I haven't killed anyone and have only KO'd one guard in the entire map. When it failed, I was just standing on a balcony trying not to be noticed by an AI walking by.

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There are several cells that can be opened; only a few have "dangerous" criminals in them. I provided some clues around the gaol on how to find out who's where, so it's not supposed to be a guessing game. You got lucky!

 

 

 

The cells have fog. There's nothing special about it.

 

My apologies for the mystery death. This didn't happen during beta, and one or two other players reported it after release. One of the guards back in the sewer gets himself in trouble and commits suicide. I've fixed that in an update, but I haven't had the will to test and publish the update yet. If it continues to plague you, I suggest you noclip/notarget back to the sewer and KO or gas everyone to keep them from walking around.

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There are several cells that can be opened; only a few have "dangerous" criminals in them. I provided some clues around the gaol on how to find out who's where, so it's not supposed to be a guessing game. You got lucky!

 

Yes, I found the book later.

 

 

The cells have fog. There's nothing special about it.

 

Is there no fog in the goal itself? Did you use a lot of dirt decals on the walls or something? There was definitely some nice, subtle visual effects going on.

 

 

Finally finished. The level of challenge was pretty good...maybe a bit too hard in the sewers but good everywhere else...I got caught several times and wasn't playing with one hand behind my back...I like when I have to be careful without inventing extra challenges for myself.

 

I think my favourite part was the gaol itself...I love having a map and being able to plan where to go and how to get there--the experience inside there reminded me a lot of In The North, which I think is still my all time favourite mission. I did all the optional missions except for the map one...got the well key but forgot to check out beneath the nooses on my way out.

 

I got a little bit confused by the story...there were so many different names and I lost track of which corrupt guard was important and which wasn't...might be related to playing over the course of three different nights.

 

2.02 moment...a guard caught me just off the east balcony, and I hit him with a gas arrow just as he charged me. "phew" I thought, and grabbed the body, thinking I was safe. A moment later as I was trying to dump it behind some crates, two other guards came running into the hall with weapons drawn. "Drop that body!" they yelled before cutting me to ribbons. :)

 

Thanks for the mission!

 

 

 

 

(not a mission-related thing, but those snowflake particles really need to be redone; they're way too detailed, to the point of looking fake--as they fly in front of your face you can actually see the specific snowflake shape, which couldn't possibly happen with actual snow...are they a standard asset?)

 

An interesting mystery....on my way back, I found a dead rat on his back in the sewers. I know I didn't kill it.....

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@Spring,

 

Glad you enjoyed it after your run-in with the Spectre of Death the other night.

 

Cleighmoor was my first attempt at a map. Here's a DR screenshot of what it looked like one week after I started it, in Feb 2010. You can see the front door of the gaol and the overhang to the left where the Warden's office is.

 

post-3633-0-52808500-1409102181_thumb.jpg

 

I was glad to be finally able to release it 4 years later. As it is, I only released half of it; the rest (the city outside the goal grounds) is sitting on the sidelines, waiting to be included in a future mission.

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An interesting mystery....on my way back, I found a dead rat on his back in the sewers. I know I didn't kill it.....

 

Could've died for any number of reasons.

 

 

 

Did you find the Warden's secret room? It offers an alternate--and quicker--way of exiting the mission.

 

 

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Is there no fog in the goal itself? Did you use a lot of dirt decals on the walls or something? There was definitely some nice, subtle visual effects going on.

 

No fog in the gaol. Only in the sewers, the cells, and one other location.

 

I did all the optional missions except for the map one...got the well key but forgot to check out beneath the nooses on my way out.

 

You should definitely venture into the well. It's the locked door caddy-corner across from the gallows. Creating the "get the map" path was a big learning experience on how to deal with player overlays. Definitely worth the trip, if you have the time.

 

 

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Could've died for any number of reasons.

 

 

 

Did you find the Warden's secret room? It offers an alternate--and quicker--way of exiting the mission.

 

 

 

I did, and figured it was probably a way out, but I had a bunch of gas arrows and wanted some payback on those guards who made my life difficult earlier. :)

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I'm about to dive into the WS series. I've heard nothing but excellent things. Looking forward to it!

"Fancy burricks are afraid of dogs, if they encounter each other the dog barks and the burricks poop." - Thief: Deadly Shadows Game Designer

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That well was a neat surprise, very unusual there mr Grayman. Although I spent way to much time trying to find the well. (thats probably my fault though, as when there are guards patrolling and usually don't explore very well, especially with light sources scattered around the place). I did however find the City Watch building to be fairly tough to get through, I did find the vents but some areas had guards going through in regular intervals with a fair bit of light like the front desk and the sleeping quarters :o. Unfortunately I have no idea how to get the map for that side mission, if someone could point me in the right direction...

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@Unbeholden:

 

 

 

The Well entrance is SE of the gallows. You'll need a key, which is in the Records Room. The entrance to the Ancients' domain can be found in the Well. The map can be found somewhere along your path through the Ancients' domain.

 

 

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I just marathoned all three WS missions, and for sake of ease I'm going to offer my experience with all three here.

 

First, amazing job crafting these missions! Congratulations, and thank you for the hard work.

 

In The North:

 

This was perhaps the most professional-feeling mission I've played. I'm not sure I'm going to be able to clarify that, but I'll try. The attention to detail was exquisite, and the whole place felt lived-in and alive, maybe more so than any mission I've played. I was a bit confused at the undead in the crypts, though. Didn't the Lord of the place go down there regularly? Are the undead under his control? New additions? Or does he sneak around them? A small continuity issue, perhaps, but maybe I missed it in a readable somewhere.

 

There were a ton of candles. I didn't necessarily mind it, but it had the potential to be a bit tedious extinguishing them all.

 

I have things to say about the difficulty, but I'll save that for later.

 

 

Home Again:

 

I'm a big fan of Thieves Highway, so this was always going to be fun for me. The Inventor's Guild stuff, which was a special touch that went beyond mere level design, was cool as hell.

 

I experienced a potentially major bug at one point. There's an upper-tier walkway across from the Inventor's Guild and north of the watch station. It has a guard on it. When I vaulted on top of it, the floor disappeared, as did several nearby walls and structures. I could see through large portions of the map and couldn't really tell where I was going, and had to navigate by running into things. I think this was one way to get to the entrance to the watch station, and I struggled ro find another, so I ended up resorting to loading the map into DR to figure out where to go.

 

The "don't touch the ground" mechanic didn't bother me, though I can see how some might say it's a bit forced. The rooftops themselves were excellent, so any excuse to stay among them was fine with me.

 

The Watch Station was good but not great, and furthered the plot admirably. Your interconnected plot readables are always very nicely done. Lots of light switches...reminded me of the candles in WS1.

 

 

Cleighmoor:

 

I guess I didn't have the trouble in the sewers that most did, judging by the comments. But the difference in atmosphere was cool, and one of your biggest talents is being able to make all of your missions and locales feel very unique. I've not seen sewers this detailed ever in a Thief game - TDM or otherwise - so it was a treat. The prison itself was again solid. Aside from the optional stuff, everything was fairly straightforward.

 

The lighting in this was the least obtrusive of the three, because I wasn't constantly doing things with switches or candles. I think there's a balance to be struck somewhere, though again, this is a small concern.

 

I'm not a huge "optional" guy, and prefer to act as though I'm the character and ask myself "What would WS do?" And while I'm sure he'd be mildly interested in the history of the place, the plot involving his parents would obviously take precedence, and I can't see him diving into a well on a lark. It seems there was a lot in this level for adventurers...the well/dream, the undead (?) area beneath the sewers, etc. Great for the curious or completionists, but I'm not the latter, and only occasionally the former. This isn't a criticism. I love the idea that there are aspects to the world that remain unexplored. It again makes it feel alive. But I'm just saying this by way of saying that not everyone will experience such cool stuff unless you give them a mandatory reason to. This may have been your intent, so, as mentioned, there's no real criticism on this. Just an observation.

 

 

Difficulty:

Forget difficulty. You're making large, complex missions with lots to do, and the whole thing is very story-driven. I'm happy to ignore "is this hard enough for me or too hard?" if I'm invested in the story or characters. And I am with this. Balanced difficulty is great, but the roleplaying element of a large story like this takes precedence for me.

 

That said, even if I did care more about the difficulty, I wouldn't have much to say. Aside from the lighting in 1 and 2, which probably pushed the missions to the easier side, I didn't once think about difficulty - or lack thereof - in a negative way. I'm actually still somewhat burned out on absurd difficulty from my recent experience with TP6, so if anything, these were perfect in that regard.

 

_____

 

Anyway, I had a ton of fun. Thanks again, and I'll be looking forward to The Warrens!

Edited by Digi

"Fancy burricks are afraid of dogs, if they encounter each other the dog barks and the burricks poop." - Thief: Deadly Shadows Game Designer

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Thanks for playing, Digi. Glad you enjoyed all three.

 

 

 

Wrt the catacombs in WS1: yes, the Lord spent a fair amount of time down there, as he was hiding his treasure in Grimmore's vault, and he was trying to figure out how to find the Brothers' lost treasure. Over time, he became quite good at avoiding the revenants.

 

 

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