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Is TDM a Game?


Springheel
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The only problem I have with TDM is that it's promoters seem to want to shove it down the throats of the TTLG Fan Mission community.

If anything, I think TDM is largely under-represented on TTLG and everywhere else for that matter. I wonder where you got that silly idea.

Edited by Briareos H
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If anything, I think TDM is largely under-represented on TTLG and everywhere else for that matter. I wonder where you got that silly idea.

"silly"? Each and every TDM release and update is announced with a new thread in the Thief Fan Missions forum on TTLG. How in the world is that "under-represented"? I've apologized for my earlier post, but I can't ignore reality. Perhaps you mean that TDM threads on TTLG aren't post-magnets with dozens of pages of comments; I can agree with that.

 

I am not the "internet argument" type of person. If I'd known my post would generate this kind of attention, I would never have created it. Please, can I just be forgotten now? Please?

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Yes, let's get back on topic.

 

We're trying to solve the great mystery of "Is The Dark Mod a game?"...kratz.gif

 

For some people, it is a platform...some might even consider it a moderator of questionable character.

 

So "Is The Dark Mod a game?".

 

...The world may never know.

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It's just generally a good idea to not exaggerate when trying to put a point across because it gives off the wrong impression and usually leads to massive holes in what you're saying. F.I. you say the reality is that TDM shoves updates and whatnot down your throat because FMs and updates get a post on TTLG, yet the same goes for LGThief fan missions and community mods. By exaggerating and later pointing out a similarity you've said that either both TDM and LGThief projects are run/publicised obnoxiously or neither are, which isn't what you're trying to say.

 

That aside, a lot of effort goes into everything Thief-related you've ever enjoyed since Looking Glass ceased to exist. Disregarding one such thing because it's not technically part of what you're familiar with isn't the best of mentalities to have. It is a game and is essentially Thief, despite there being a slight unspoken hesitance to say as much. I forget what the debate in this thread was actually about, I just vaguely remember people trying to deny that a computer game was a computer game because reasons. TDM's been consistently entertaining for long enough by now to deserve the same recognition as LGThief FMs. Everyone involved in producing what you see posted over there deserves praise, not that backwards Dark Ages shun-the-different-one attitude.

Please, can I just be forgotten now? Please?

Not on the internet, no. Edited by Airship Ballet
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Not on the internet, no.

Quite a tangent, but that's a major, major reason why the Internet has turned way too creepy in the last few years. What most people do online is equivalent to informal conversation in a mostly friendly setting. We are careless, we know each other, we voice private concerns and occasionally get hoteaded. That's how most of us behave, and that's how communities work. Except it all goes on the record where anyone anywhere can quote-mine it and hold it against you in a situation where it is not you and your friends holding an informal chat, but an audience that is more likely to be indifferent or (with the right framing) hostile to anything you say.

 

I have had some very unpleasant experiences where years-old posts of mine were quoted grossly out of context, and they are still being paraded around on RPG-related message boards as ''evidence'' that I am a horrible, mean person who hates fun. All it took was a bunch of people with a ''never forget, never forgive'' mentality, and it has affected my reputation even though I have deleted these posts years ago. It is a minor thing about a hobby so it doesn't matter, but there are cases where you could lose your job or be tarred and feathered in public over it. Prosecuted, even.

 

So, the Internet desperately needs to learn to forget.

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Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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Quite a tangent, but that's a major, major reason why the Internet has turned way too creepy in the last few years.

 

A tangent, yes, but a more interesting topic than the thread title IMO so I'm going to join in. Yes it came a quite a shock to those of us who remember when the internet felt like a private place populated by just a very few like-minded nerds. I got embarrassed by 20-year old posts too. That's one reason I've started using my real name for all forums where I participate, to remind me that with modern means, internet pseudonyms are trivially easy to associate with a real person. And I stick to talking about productive and worthwhile projects like this one :)

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Melan is right.

 

This is why I have always enjoyed the privacy of the internet, masquerading behind the nickname and the avatar. While I strive to be polite and nice, I still want to keep my online self unlinkable to my real self. They must be separate.

 

Further, sometimes I notice that my online 'Sotha' personality is somewhat different from my real self, which interesting and fun!

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Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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a bunch of people with a ''never forget, never forgive'' mentality

You should see the rest of the internet. This community's a pretty great one: it has a nice balance of maturity and humor, to contrast with holier-than-thou old farts on other old games' forums and the tweenage, meme-regurgitating tools of pretty much everywhere else. My only real gripe with it is a general kindness towards people which, while appreciated, tends to be more than some deserve. There's a kind of unspoken etiquette where people feel they have to mince words with people who need a blunt "grow up or fuck off" which tends to lead to a lot of flowery pseudo-polite responses that basically say the same thing. There's a balance to be had really, one that isn't here and probably gets me tutted at a bunch.
So, the Internet desperately needs to learn to forget.
Well, yeah, if it's someone pulling up the past like a domestic-gone-straw-clutching-contest ordeal then they need to grow up (if it's a regular thing) and stop being petty. I'd say the fact that you can never really erase what you get up to on the interwebs is actually a positive: it roots out and immediately discredits the morons and allows others to establish their personalities and opinions as they see fit. I for one act pretty much no differently to how I would in a similar social situation, one where I'm talking with people I have things in common with but don't know on a personal level. It's fairly clear-cut in a WYSIWYG sense, given you get to write a response in your own time. Granted you can always edit your posts and delete your accounts but that says more than what was there originally. There are no two ways about whether or not someone's an idiot on the internet because it's clear in what they say, though it's incredibly tame in this community.
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No of course not, Vae! But I really dislike conserving the stupid things some people wrote in this thread!

 

May be the mystery of this great question be ever unsolved... xD

"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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Lol, well this was a fun read. I say leave it open. Future generations deserve to see this.

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"Fancy burricks are afraid of dogs, if they encounter each other the dog barks and the burricks poop." - Thief: Deadly Shadows Game Designer

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  • 4 weeks later...

Wikipedia seems to agree TDM is a game:

 

https://de.wikipedia...ki/The_Dark_Mod

https://en.wikipedia...ki/The_Dark_Mod

 

But the confusionis easily understood because TDM has a different way of delivering content (basically 1 mission included + 80 DLCs, where most games have X missions included and 5..10 DLCs), and the team has refered a long time to TDM as a toolkit, plus it has "mod" in the name (not "The Dark Game"), plus TDM is actually more than a game - it is a platform/toolkit/whatever because it comes with full source code and can be changed in any way you want.

 

So basically TDM is more than a game - and I can see how this confused people who wnat their content to be fixed and spoonfed to them :)

Edited by Tels

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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There will always be someone criticizing about the state of the game, but the truth is:

TDM has achieved something no AAA title on the market aside Skyrim (Portal 2?) could for the last 5 years. Being an awesome game experience and also supporting community work. Even the few missions available on 1.0 release had more valuable content than 80% of todays AAA´s...

It doesn´t matter that TDM didn´t sell for 50 million dollars, but it sure would have deserved it more than most games that did so in games history.

Edited by Cookie
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Further, sometimes I notice that my online 'Sotha' personality is somewhat different from my real self, which interesting and fun!

 

Multiple personality disorder...? Me too! :D

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Multiple personality disorder...? Me too! :D

 

Good heavens, no!

 

Have you ever noticed how you behave differently when you are with different people. You have the same personality, but the way you express your personality changes. That is the case here. So no multiple personalities, but a single personality, but varying expressions of thereof.

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Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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Yes, also notice how the mind adapts when being exposed to the same group of people? It begins to use common phrases of another person in that circle, and phrases you use get picked up by the other members, hence sometimes people referring to the same thing the same way as someone else.

 

One thing that I notice about myself online is how long I dwindle over the words and order of words I use when expressing myself. I generally have too many "umms" or pauses in my speech, when typing online I think way too much into the many different ways something can be interpreted.

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Well I think TDM is a game, but not in a traditional meaning.

This might not be the best comparison, but it's kinda like the ArmA series, for example ArmA 3 on release. It had multiplayer yes, but if we strip that away, the "game" was released with no single player campaign, it was just basically an extensive package of war simulator assets that people could use to create their own missions and stuff. A platform, as the devs said too. The campaign came later in 3 episodes.

If we take away the FMs from TDM, the package, as released by the developers, is just a toolset, which others can use to create something. The only way we can play it is through the FMs.

I think we could call it a game in classic meaning if TDM were designed with a playable campaign/multiplayer in mind in the first place, the usage of Doom 3 engine/assets for creating a Thief like single player experience, instead of creating assets for a Thief like world. Like any other mod that uses a base game for it's gameplay.

Just my two cents :)

Edited by beyondthesun
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//If we take away the FMs from TDM, the package, as released by the developers, is just a toolset, which others can use to create something. The only way we can play it is through the FMs.//

 

If we take away the missions from Dungeons &Dragons, the books, as released by the developers, is just a toolset, which others can use to create something. the only way we can play it is through the missions.

 

If we take away the neighbourhoods from The Sims, the software, as released by the developers, is just a toolset, which others can use to create something. The only way we can play is through the neighbourhoods.

 

Etc, etc...

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