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Builders Vs. City Watch Jurisdiction


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So as I played through the Thief games I often wondered, what dictates whether a thief is thrown into a City Watch prison or a Hammer prison.


When young Garrett got caught stealing from a Keeper he begged the Keeper not to tell the Hammers. Also, Garrett's fence Cutty, was locked up in the Hammer's cells within Cragscleft.


If Garrett was caught in Deadly Shadows, he was locked up in the City Watch's Pavelock Prison.


Is it simply a matter of who catches the thief, or who the thief is handed over to?


What is the jurisdiction like between TDM's City Watch and Builders?

Edited by SirGen
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I can't answer this, being completely ignorant of the subject matter, but it reminded me of an interesting (to me) bit of trivia, if someone goes over Niagara Falls and survives, the country that arrests them, is the one that they wash up on the shore of.

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"The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out."

- Baron Thomas Babington Macauley

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According to the wiki:


The Builder Church is deeply intertwined with the politics of the Empire, and the bishops of the Church vie for power with the most powerful nobles. The Church does not officially control the city, but it does have the authority to create and enforce laws relating to orthodoxy and heresy, as well as try its own members in ecclesiastical courts.




The Builders do not rule over cities or secular territory. They have authority in religious matters, but in Bridgeport the Lord Mayor and civil courts handle secular laws (there is often debate over which is which, however).

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"You only cut off my leg if that's where one of them gets me!"


"Alright alright don't get so mad I'm just saying that I'd help you out in a pinch, that's all!"

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I think the world would be better realized with secular courts and City Watch prisons, albeit blatantly corrupt ones, and Builders would have some privileged position in accusing people & getting convictions.


I think justice in medieval Europe is the best analogy, including the inquisition. Wiki entry on "Inquisition" has this relevant quote on it: "In practice, the Inquisition would not itself pronounce sentence, but handed over convicted heretics to secular authorities for the punishment deemed fitting by the Church.[5]"

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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Because The Builder Church is the TDM version of the Catholic church, I'd say one natural way to approach this would be to look at the historical divide of power, influence and responsibility between state and church.


Yep. The Church has ecclisiastical courts where clergy are tried for regular crimes, and it can try regular people for religious crimes there. The Inquisition is a slightly separate body that only deals with charges of heresy and witchcraft. Secular courts handle everything else.


Where there is a grey area is places where both the church and state want to claim jurisdiction, like if the player is caught stealing from the church, is that a religious crime or secular crime? Both sides could make a claim.

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