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Well, one way to cut-down on the expense of a cover system is to make it "manual", ie: create an entity called atdm:cover_volume or something similar

then have mappers pre-define which areas are in "cover". Then you've just do an early out branch on the AI algorithm to see if the player is "in cover".

I think such a thing could even be done with trigger_facing entities and scripts right now but (yes) ideally this would one-day be done via a clever

scanning\sampling algorithm. You could even have both methods where the manual entity is a mapper optimization while the automated trace kicks off if

no cover entity is within x units of the AI.

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Just thought i'd open up a new thread for Thief 4, the "trash" thread seemed a bit prejudged for general discussions and announcements about the game. 50% off on Steam atm: http://store.steampo...com/

Ah, the bugs in that game... *excited voice* The bugs, man, the bugs...   My personal favourite video about the character glitches and lackluster AI is this one:    

I outlined a version that was even more open, where there's not only a totally open procedural city to ransack, but you can buy your own warehouses, ships, mansion, and guards against other thieves, a

Post Scriptum: I'm replaying now this game.....and I must admit that it's not so bad but.....the loot is terrible: non-sense (INK BOTTLE i'm speaking of you :D), not rewarding (awful loot in a locked chest, it's simply stupid) and scattered without any sense here and there.

Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

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Speaking of loot, what really annoyed me when playing Thief 4 was that Garret was clairvoyant: he already knew if a drawer contained loot and used another animation to open it :)!

Master thief perk! :P

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

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I played it again recently and once again really enjoyed the first mission (robbing the jewelry store) it felt like a real Thief mission however I forgot Garrett had horse hoofs because just turning around even you can hear this clapping noise which feels so unnatural and strange haha.

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Nice to know even AAA AI have trouble with doors sometimes....

 

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Never noticed you could take out guards with bottles. :blink:

FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

WIP's: Several. Although after playing Thief 4 I really wanna make a city mission.

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

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Post Scriptum: I'm replaying now this game.....and I must admit that it's not so bad but.....the loot is terrible: non-sense (INK BOTTLE i'm speaking of you :D), not rewarding (awful loot in a locked chest, it's simply stupid) and scattered without any sense here and there.

I must admit that, even though quite liking it in the beginning, it began to make less and less sense and fun while going on playing it. Not only does it feature a lot of non-sense things, but it also poses no real challenge to play. The characters stay pale, the story never really kicks off, and most of the time you're even wondering why you do all the thieving. It has its moments sometimes, and the handling is quite good, but IMO that doesn't really equal the weak points.

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Been replaying NuThief recently, trying enjoy it as much as possible. I even purchased the companion app for iPad because someone told me that the lore unlocks would make the story make sense, but no such luck.

 

My biggest gripe is how small the actual missions and heists are. Sure, the City is a big open thing, but it's just there for you to get from place A to B. The worst offender I think are the random houses in the City, which never have any people living in them. Where is the thrill of stealing when you just poke around yet another empty apartment for pens and inkwells?

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Yep. :D As i wrote elsewhere, for the next part, if any, i'd love them to do it completely open world. One thing that's cool in Thief despite the negative things is, that you actually can spend your money on stuff which really helps you, like the wire cutter, vent tool, and the weapons upgrades, and arrows. How cool would it be with an open world, you talk to NPC to get quests (heists), you can freely go to your fence all the time, sell your stuff, you can buy stuff at shops etc. Additionally, as already has been said before (and kindly ignored by me, just to find out it was true...) i'd like them to make the game closer to the original Thief's again, and especially raise the difficulty. It's not only too easy, it lacks any challenge. And the main character, Garett, remains as pale as he looks like... actually, after a couple of hours, you start asking yourself, why am i doing all this? What's the characters motivation, especially when you can showcase your "special loot" in your hideout, lol... one would think a thief would actually sell all his stuff to make money. Well, lots to do, if there will be a new part.

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Yep. :D As i wrote elsewhere, for the next part, if any, i'd love them to do it completely open world. One thing that's cool in Thief despite the negative things is, that you actually can spend your money on stuff which really helps you, like the wire cutter, vent tool, and the weapons upgrades, and arrows...

 

I agree that the tools were interesting (I'm all about gadgets, which is why I've always been a bit more fond of Deus Ex than Thief...) but I dislike how they are used to wall the player from content. Instead of having multiple uses, the wire cutter, vent tool and rope arrows are all basically "keys" that allow you to unlock very specific obstacles. If a sequel does happen one day, I'd like to see the tools make a comeback, as long as they get more than one purpose and allow for some creativity on the players part!

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I outlined a version that was even more open, where there's not only a totally open procedural city to ransack, but you can buy your own warehouses, ships, mansion, and guards against other thieves, and eventually your own criminal empire until you can become the next baron over the city.

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What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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I'm late to the public stoning- I mean, party- but I finally got to play this game.

 

My expectation was low, I thought it would be like deadly shadows, kinda fun if you forget all about T1 and 2. It didn't even meet these already low expectations :(

 

A lot has been said already, the broken story and linearity, so there's not much left to kick. One thing I didn't hear about yet is the upgrade system. Sounds cool in theory, definitely works in a game like Deus Ex, but in Thief it breaks the game completely. Stealth level design is incredibly finicky. Take a fully working level and rotate a guard, now the level is impossible. Upgrade system makes the level designer's life hell in Thief, how can you tell if that lock is too difficult for that corridor with a patrolling guard if you don't know how fast he is picking locks? How can you tell if that section with guards is too difficult if you don't know if the player has the upgrade that makes him quieter? The fact that the levels are extremely linear accentuates the problem.

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I enjoyed the first level of Thief breaking into that jewelry store with that beautiful rain coming down, but it felt like things went down hill from there sadly.. although I wonder what EM are doing with the franchise now.

 

After cruising over to the eidos forum theres a thread saying that Thief 4 sales "exceeded" expectations... although that seems to come from the overly excitably forum trolls moderators so who knows if its true or not.

 

I wonder if we will see a Thief 5 or if EM will sell the rights to Otherside entertainment and maybe we see another Thief game from them. I remember reading an article where EM fired a bunch of staff members but I dont think they fired all of the Thief team so there must be people left there working on something else

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After cruising over to the eidos forum theres a thread saying that Thief 4 sales "exceeded" expectations... although that seems to come from the overly excitably forum trolls moderators so who knows if its true or not.

We don't know what their internal expectations were. They massively overestimated the demand for Hitman & Tomb Raider, so maybe they set more conservative numbers for Thief (2014)? One things for sure, Square-Enix and Eidos Montreal can't be happy with the games reception considering how long it was in development for.

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I don't know if we're ever going to see another interesting Thief, honestly. This IP is owned by Eidos and they're not letting it go, and they are also definitely not going to make a game that goes against every game design trend that sells games nowadays, which is what a worthy sequel requires. Can you imagine pitching the idea to someone about to give you 50 million dollars? "hey, so, yeah, there won't be any open world stuff, I know that's all the rage right now but still. No RPG elements as well, sorry. Oh, by the way, the graphics will be slightly worse than the current gen games, because we have to make some compromises in order to make larger maps. I would like my 50 mil in 10 and 20 dollar bills, please."

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Well, they could get away from the AAA mentality. Making it a low budget game mens it doesn't has to sell that oftem to be worth the effort, and this is what I think would be the best way to go with the thief franchise. The basic fundament in thief 4 is properly working, only the story and level design isn't that good. Making a new thief with this engine and just changing minor things like implementing free jumping and remove focus stuff etc. would be the right way to go. The first level "Lockdown" was actually pretty good imho. Orientating the level design on such missions and those from the original games based on the already made engine would make it definetely interesting for me.

FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

WIP's: Several. Although after playing Thief 4 I really wanna make a city mission.

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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I think, Thief 4 was not as bad as most people say. Many things people critisized did not bother me (but probably I am too modest). I disabled the Mini-map, because I also think, that it is not fitting. I actually disabled almost the whole HUD, so I only had the hands in my view (which I really liked). I agree that the upgrade system was unnecessary, but I liked the focus ability. If you did not want to use it, no one forced you to. You can play the whole game without it (you even get a Steam achievement, if you do). Also, the fact that you could not jump freely was not as bad as I feared. Of course, the player loses freedom, but I could vault on most things, I wanted to and it actually happened quite a lot in older games, that I tried to reach a ledge, but did not have the right angle or it was slightly too high, which caused, that I was discovered. This can not happen in this game. When I played the game, I did not pay too much attention on level design (I played before starting to map myself, so this has changed by now), so I can not say how many different ways each level had.

The only thing I completely agree with, which is the fact that I only played the game once, and am not sure if I will again, was the bad story. Or better: the lack of an interesting story. This actually spoiled the whole game for me, which I find really sad.

But as I said: I could live with most changes that were made, but would not really compare it to the old games (especially story-wise).

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When I played the game, I did not pay too much attention on level design (I played before starting to map myself, so this has changed by now), so I can not say how many different ways each level had.

There are actually several ways to reach your goal in most situations. The difference is, that each of these ways was actually designed as specific ways the player could go, and you can clearly feal it. This let the gameplay appear a bit artificial at least to me.

 

In the original games the level where more sandbox like. There were different ways, too, but in a larger scale.

FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

WIP's: Several. Although after playing Thief 4 I really wanna make a city mission.

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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T4 (nuThief) is in the new Square Enix Humble Bundle.

 

Reinstalled now....replaying it another time (with Mantle support! :D). First "level" (jewelry) is really good indeed :P

Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

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