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TDM Mapping Conventions


Springheel

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This thread is not about the technical aspects of mapping, or performance issues. It's about the "language" of TDM missions...the kinds of things that we would like to see mappers do consistently across missions to communicate things to players. For example, in nuThief, they used a white paint decal to communicate to the player where they could mantle something.

 

I'm sure there will be some disagreement over these, but ultimately I'd like to put together a guide of "TDM Conventions" that players expect mappers to follow. Mappers are, of course, free to break those conventions, but they should have a good reason for doing so, and should recognize that players might not be expecting it.

 

 

 

I'll start off with one that I know can be contentious:

 

* Mappers should make it clear to players which doors can be frobbed and which can't, preferably by using a 'dummy handle' on decorative doors.

 

There are several simple handle models that don't move when the player frobs them (like the round door-knocker handle or curved static handle). If doors can't open and are only for decoration, they should use these kinds of handles. It allows the player to tell from a reasonable distance that the door is just decorative, but it looks better aesthetically than having doors with no handle at all. Doors that can open should use the more complicated handle models that rotate or move. NEVER use the same door handles on both decorative and functional doors in the same map.

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* Mappers should make it clear to players which doors can be frobbed and which can't, preferably by using a 'dummy handle' on decorative doors.

 

There are several simple handle models that don't move when the player frobs them (like the round door-knocker handle or curved static handle). If doors can't open and are only for decoration, they should use these kinds of handles. It allows the player to tell from a reasonable distance that the door is just decorative, but it looks better aesthetically than having doors with no handle at all. Doors that can open should use the more complicated handle models that rotate or move. NEVER use the same door handles on both decorative and functional doors in the same map.

 

Biker created a moving door-knocker-style handle that I've used in the WS missions. From a distance, you can't tell it apart from the non-moving style. I've also used the non-moving style of vertical iron door handles on functional doors.

 

I was present for the religious debate over "handles vs no handles" for non-functioning doors, and decided to go with "no handles".

 

I don't think there's a standard for telling at a distance whether a handled door is usable or not. I always end up trying handled doors and ignoring non-handled doors.

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Style of handle doesn't help me, I can't see it in the dark across the street anyway. I'm with G-man, if there's no handle, I know the door is meant to be decorative rather than functional. If there's a handle, know I will be wasting my time going up to the door to "try" it and will be annoyed.

 

There's a default convention I wish more mappers would break. They use mostly the same "half dozen" standard loot items (with their attendant variations). Often you don't even need to enter a room, just glance from the doorway and see there's nothing inside you want. It's easy enough to change the skins so other bottles on a wine rack may be the precious vintage, it's easy enough to change models so other busts or jewelry or trinkets may be valuable. Obviously, if you rely on frob highlights to indicate to players atypical valuable items, then don't have oodles of movable/frobable non-valuable items to confuse them in the same map. This restores a bit of that initial exploration you got to do the very first time you played, back when you didn't know what was valuable or not.

"The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out."

- Baron Thomas Babington Macauley

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* Make sure loot objects can be clearly identified. It is bad form to repurpose a random object that doesn't look particularly valuable as a piece of loot. Only do this if the fiction makes it reasonable, and the player has sufficient clues to realise that there is a special piece of loot in the mission.

 

* Secret door clues: the more important a secret to progressing through or completing the mission, the more important it is to broadcast its existence. Sloppy closing mechanisms, strange item placement, written clues, even a well-placed decal can do the trick. This is especially important in large missions, where a ''perfect'' secret door might be like a needle in a haystack - very hard to correctly identify.

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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In addition mappers may want to make all doors frobable, even those who serve a decorative purpose only, for the purpose of not telling the player where the map ends, thus letting it appear larger at it actually is.

 

I see that there are benefits from setting up standards avoiding player confusion or frustration. But those standards should be decided carefully on.

 

But as we are talking about it here are a couple of things I would like to see more in FM's. This is only my personal opinion, though.

  • The amount and kind of equipment given to the player should be choosen carefully, with possible locations of use in mind. I often encounter missions were I have far too much equipment, sparing it as I think I may need it and end up with almost all the stuff left in my inventory when I finish the mission.
  • The amount of loot one can gather in an area of the mission, like a specific room or so, should be proportional to the amount of skill needed to get there. Do I need to find a key first? Are there lots of guards? etc... It often seems to me that mappers place loot completely randomly in there map, making a loot hunt completely undesireable for me.
  • Lights: Mappers should not only restrict the stealth gameplay to "I'm in light, I'm in danger and I'm in the shadows, I'm safe". Well lit areas with obstacles you can hide behind, in addition with well thought patrol routes requiring the player to plan and time his movement very well are a must have in a good stealth mission imho
  • RIT's: sounds obvious, but mappers should really use those. This does not neccessarely mean that the ai has to do something spectacular, but at least not all guards should use the same patrols routes all the time.
  • Readables kept to it's essentials: Readables are a nice way to add more atmosphere and immersion to a FM. However, mappers should keep in mind that 1.) TDM is a game, not a book and 2.) not all players are native englishs, and a lot of players may have a hard time understanding everything that's written. Try to avoid writing whole books when you can keep it two one to two pages.
  • Difficulty: The highest level does not neccesarely need to be ghostable, and experienced players will not choose the lowest one. Try to make use of the difficulty levels to create an enjoyable mission for most parts of the player. This is a stealth game, therefore a tactical game. The challenge is part of the fun. (That's why we play this and not Call of Duty ;) )
  • Logic: Everything in your mission must have a constistent logic. Not only the story, but also everything else. And not only to you, but to other people as well. (Betatesting is a good way to check this). If there is a hidden passage, that let's the player avoid difficult situations, place enough hints (St. Lucia is a great example how to do this in an obvious still subtle way: Scripted event, readable, a little secret and a key: perfect). People should not be enforced to explore the whole map just to find that one little secret shortcut.
  • Maps: Create bloody maps. If your mission does not only consist out of half a dozen of rooms, jsut do it. Or ask someone. Not everyone likes to aimlessly roam around. (Especially not me)

So, this has been a lot of stuff. I don't know if everything goes into the direction Springheel wanted to go with this thread, neither do I claim that I followed this rules all the time. But I think they are a good starting point for a good discussion :)

FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

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* Secret door clues: the more important a secret to progressing through or completing the mission, the more important it is to broadcast its existence. Sloppy closing mechanisms, strange item placement, written clues, even a well-placed decal can do the trick. This is especially important in large missions, where a ''perfect'' secret door might be like a needle in a haystack - very hard to correctly identify.

+1 on that one. This is just sooooooooooo important.

FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

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I don't think there's a standard for telling at a distance whether a handled door is usable or not. I always end up trying handled doors and ignoring non-handled doors.

 

Non-handled doors does communicate it clearly, though for aesthetic reasons mappers often want to put handles on their doors, and then you have to try all of them.

 

I don't think the door-knocker looks much like the movable handle Biker made...I can certainly tell them apart from several yards away. (which is enough, I think...it's not important for players to identify decorative doors from across the map, it's enough to make sure they don't risk getting seen by stepping into the light around one only to find that it's fake).

 

And if that's not distinct enough, I can always make something else that is. The point of this thread is to try and establish conventions for the future...if all missions were already doing it the same way there wouldn't be anything to discuss. :)

 

Mappers that want to leave fake doors without handles can continue to do so, but if we make a prop handle that is meant to communicate "fake door", then it's important that no one use it for a real door.

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In addition mappers may want to make all doors frobable, even those who serve a decorative purpose only, for the purpose of not telling the player where the map ends, thus letting it appear larger at it actually is.

 

Why on earth would you do that? If the door can open, then great, it's a functional door (even if it doesn't lead anywhere). But why would you make a door frobbable if it can't actually open? Unless you've made it locked but still frobbable, and there's no way to unlock it. I wouldn't like that, personally, as I'd then be encouraged to look around for a key that doesn't exist.

 

There's a default convention I wish more mappers would break. They use mostly the same "half dozen" standard loot items (with their attendant variations). Often you don't even need to enter a room, just glance from the doorway and see there's nothing inside you want. It's easy enough to change the skins so other bottles on a wine rack may be the precious vintage, it's easy enough to change models so other busts or jewelry or trinkets may be valuable.

 

That might be another contentious one. :) I actually would recommend the exact opposite--making loot objects obvious to the player. We already get complaints from new players that it is hard to know what is loot and what isn't. A master thief should be able to recognize valuables without having to pick up everything in the house to examine it, IMO.

 

 

So, this has been a lot of stuff. I don't know if everything goes into the direction Springheel wanted to go with this thread,

 

Not really. :) Those are good mapping practices, but this thread isn't really about how to make a good mission, it's about how to communicate things to the player (like what is loot, what is a door you can open, etc) when there's a benefit to communicating it in consistent ways across missions.

 

Another example:

 

* inaccessible routes should be blocked by physical objects like fences or rubble, rather than invisible walls

 

Here's another one that's bound to be contentious:

 

Readable books and scrolls should be the type that can go into inventory. Players should not be forced to read a book without being able to move it, unless there is some obvious reason why the book can't be moved (it's chained up or is too heavy or whatever).

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Something new I'm doing in this FM I'm working on with somebody else: telling the difference between loot paintings and decorative paintings. It's something that's never been done consistently well in an FM to my recollection, and I've found a fairly decent way to overcome it, I think. My solution has been to halfway cover the lootable paintings with curtains, which would obviously be used to protect the valuable ones and leave the crappier ones open to the elements. Would this work for you, do you think? If you were to find one painting after another with a curtain over the top of it, do you think you'd eventually realise it was communicating their value?

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That, or also as you started describing your premise, an art spotlight came to mind highlighting those of value (if an electric setting).

"The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out."

- Baron Thomas Babington Macauley

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Something new I'm doing in this FM I'm working on with somebody else: telling the difference between loot paintings and decorative paintings. It's something that's never been done consistently well in an FM to my recollection, and I've found a fairly decent way to overcome it, I think. My solution has been to halfway cover the lootable paintings with curtains, which would obviously be used to protect the valuable ones and leave the crappier ones open to the elements. Would this work for you, do you think? If you were to find one painting after another with a curtain over the top of it, do you think you'd eventually realise it was communicating their value?

 

That sounds like a good idea.

 

Many loot paintings are found stored in attics, though. They're not likely to have curtains on them, so we wouldn't want to fall into the assumption that non-curtained paintings are not loot.

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Yes, paintings are one of those cases where the loot and non-loot versions look identical, which is generally a Bad Idea.

 

I agree that something should be done to make loot paintings stand out from non-loot versions, but I'm not sure of a general rule that can suit all situations.

 

Also, just out of curiosity, anyone know why atdm:loot_painting_small is worth 325 (more than a purse full of emeralds) when atdm:loot_painting is only worth 125 and atdm:loot_painting_medium is worth 225?

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Here's another issue-- frobable windows.

 

It's completely unrealistic for players to climb up and test every window to see if it can be frobbed. I think the two most common conventions are either:

1) leave the window slightly adjar

2) use a different texture to make the window stand out from fake ones (like a transparent texture so the player can see the room beyond).

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(Previously posted but erroneously moved to an unrelated thread.)

 

One thing I see that trips up new TDM mappers repeatedly (in the limited time I've been active even), is using opaque fake windows instead of clear glass with full buildings.

 

Clear glass that can be seen through means everything inside/outside gets rendered as well, defeating half the purpose of visportals. Where clear glass is used successfully is spaces that are meant to be rendered as well, are limited in size, and defined in scope. A display case, a small guard room that otherwise would just as likely to be completely open or have metal bars, in dividing walls, or looking onto interior courtyards (without clear glass on the far side).

 

It is possible to do on buildings when combined with opaque shutters that are closed and open into limited spaces.

 

PS: On the subject of windows, many can easily have their textures flipped horizontally, rotated 90°, or both, to create variety,

instead of each window being an exact video-game-y clone of each other.

 

Heh, perhaps rename the thread to "TDM Mapping Contentions"?

"The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out."

- Baron Thomas Babington Macauley

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Just to pick up a few of the suggestions in the thread:

 

Door Handles should, in my opinion, not be used on street-level doors that can't be opened. The one thing that's always made me dislike street levels is having to try every single door to find the one in ten that I can frob. The fact that I can frob it doesn't mean I can open or even pick it, in fact usually the opposite, leaving me frustrated in the search for the route to go. L.A. Noire bypassed that by having all enterable buildings' door knobs a shiny golden material you could that didn't stand out but clearly labelled it as the door you wanted when you came close. While it's not necessarily realistic, I place gameplay far above aesthetic perfection/realism when playing games, TDM included. It goes without saying that my word isn't gospel, but it would please me no end if there could be some sort of rule thought up to make it clear in city maps which doors can and can't be opened.

 

Loot Models should stick to those conventional models that are known as valuable from appearance and memory. Frankly, if a player can open a door and look into your room and see absolutely every space a piece of loot could be without stepping in, you're not mapping well enough. In the same sense, if they're not compelled to go in simply because there's no immediately visible loot, you're again not making a very interesting map.

 

Readables have already been covered but I'd second the opinion that expositional/contextual readables should be world objects and that ones with codes or locations should be obtainable by the player. The additional bonus of doing so is letting the player know the readable they have is important in some way.

 

To add a few of my own (albeit some that aren't really about communication to the player, sue me):

 

Empty Rooms should always have at least a bit of loot in them somewhere. I know that realistically speaking, store rooms and the like shouldn't have huge gem-encrusted vases made out of precious metals, but they should have something. If you can't bring yourself to put any equipment or loot inside a room at all, at least make it big enough to hide a body in. On a similar note, don't lock the doors of pointless rooms. Yes, realistically not every room would have something worth taking and yes, most of them would be locked, but it makes sense to put gameplay before the realistic running of your adult dollhouse.

 

Lights can, when used well, be used to direct players. The L4D and HL dev commentaries all talk about how Valve devs use lighting to guide the player around on a subconscious level. A light at the end of an otherwise dark alley will always draw the player there before anywhere else, so while you don't have to construct your map to resemble a connect-the-lights when viewed from above, don't put a light at the end of a dark alley and then have there be nothing there. The same goes for lights, doors, guards, loot, carpets, walls, anythings that stick out from your established in-game style sheet. If all your corridors are red floral wallpaper with wooden doors leading into regular rooms and you suddenly find yourself in a white celtic knot corridor with a metal door at the end, you know you're in business. If you put your loot vault behind a wooden door surrounded by other wooden doors that lead into toilets and cleaner closets, you're a bad person and you should feel bad.

 

Random Loot needs to stop, what with the pennies in the shoes at the bottom of the ocean inside a lock box that takes longer to open than you can hold your breath for. While it's not game-breaking for me, it is frustrating starting a map and knowing that I most likely won't be able to find 100% of the loot because there's a penny in a drainpipe somewhere I'd never look. I know that some enjoy looking absolutely everywhere and that it's something of a nod to the obscure secrets of FPS' past but at least make it something you can see from a distance.

 

Guards should not be walking around on a route between the toilet and the servant bedrooms. A rich Lord or Lady will not in all likelihood hire 5 extra guards to make sure their underlings' footlockers don't get raided of a night, so just arm a few servants or make sure your commoners run to the guards when they see you. This also works to communicate that the player is getting somewhere when the majority NPC population progresses from rag-tag bar wenches to thug guards to elites.

 

Masses of Floor Space shouldn't be present in your map aside from grand rooms and ye olde sublime castles/churches. It's tempting to take that last big space on your planned floor and just leave it as is, but putting in at least a dividing wall will make it feel that bit more atmospheric and far, far less like playing a vidya game.

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I generally like many of those Airship ideas, but a couple of them I have these comments on:

 

Lights don't work well that way in a game designed to avoid the bright (cue Gollum's "it burnsess"). Yes, I know humans and mammal eyes and brains are designed to register bright moving things first. But in this game, we seek the shadows. Put a light somewhere to drive me away from there, not toward it!

 

What you dub "random loot" isn't for most players, it's for loot completionists who do enjoy exactly what some don't. I've yet to see a map/objective requiring all loot to complete. The nice thing about TDM is it may provide pleasure to a wider range of players than many other environments. If those extra bits of loot weren't tucked away in some odd spots, it would remove a whole avenue of game-play for those who enjoy that, meanwhile not getting loot you wouldn't want to pursue anyway doesn't affect others particularly.

 

However a theme of your post relates to the psychological concept of "Flow", which measures fun, and a key element is that the reward be commensurate with the effort to achieve it. So a quick empty room with little to no reward is actually more fun than a quick room with a big reward. Similarly, if someone takes the effort to dive down to the bottom of something, and we have to expend a breath or health potion, or make multiple trips to pick a lock while down there, a big cash-out is more fun than feeling gypped for all that effort.

"The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out."

- Baron Thomas Babington Macauley

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What you dub "random loot" isn't for most players

What I'm talking about there isn't well-hidden loot, it's loot hidden so far out of the way in such an awkward place that it moves from completionism to frustration. There's definitely a difference between a tongue-in-cheek penny at the end of a labyrinthian vent network that serves no other purpose other than to house said penny, and a penny at the top of the map with no easy way up and nothing to telegraph its position apart from the other hundred windowsills up there; that's just bad design. I'm all for hiding things away, but doing so cleverly rather than as obscurely as possible, because almost nobody has time or inclination to climb everywhere and check everything: there needs to be some sign from the main mission path that there's something to see, like a balcony or a light in the dark. That brings me on to the other point:

Lights don't work well that way in a game designed to avoid the bright

Agreed, which is why I said to not use light to direct a player around your map because it's not really applicable here. What is avoidable, however, is misleading lights down dark alleys that actually serve no purpose at all. Saying that does make me think that while you can't use light to direct the player, you can use shadows. A player will, in this case, follow the darkness in an area and see it to its end, only risking the light when they're done with what they can get to via shadows. It's the same idea, just flipped onto its back.

a quick empty room with little to no reward is actually more fun than a quick room with a big reward

Yep, that's a pithy, efficient way of putting it. If I were to pick a hamartia of mine, it's probably my overlong phrasing that will get me killed somehow. Still, I would say that a quick empty room with little reward trumps a quick room with a big reward, which in turn trumps any room with no reward at all. Edited by Airship Ballet
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Not really. :) Those are good mapping practices, but this thread isn't really about how to make a good mission, it's about how to communicate things to the player (like what is loot, what is a door you can open, etc) when there's a benefit to communicating it in consistent ways across missions.

 

If this is the only intent, cool.

 

Because until I read that, this thread was a bit intimidating. Stuff like door handles, random loot, your inaccessible route example, making loot identifiable, etc. are mostly common sense design elements that are fairly easy to check for, and I'm happy to read about how others handle them.

Edited by Digi

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Expanding patrols.

In every mission with intelligent opposition, there should be a few guards that have narrow area that expands if they are alerted. They sleep in the barracks, they eat in their room, and so forth. When they get alarmed, they move to key choke points of the map and guard it effectively (requiring tool use or a distraction to get past him). The AI should be in a flee_point room so that fleeing noncombatants alert the for sure.

 

This small dynamic makes the mission more 'alive.'

 

Conversations.

Same thing. Every mission should have at least one simple conversation. They always add to the atmosphere, immersion, and over all polish of the mission.

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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This is probably silly, but I get a tad annoyed when some food is edible in one part of a map then static in another. I also wish all paintings were collectible even if they don't count as loot. It would be cool if you had an inventory screen to look at them, and your acquired wealth for that matter.

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Also, just out of curiosity, anyone know why atdm:loot_painting_small is worth 325 (more than a purse full of emeralds) when atdm:loot_painting is only worth 125 and atdm:loot_painting_medium is worth 225?

 

Could we assume the more valuable painting is done by a more reknowned painter, like say, comparing a Da Vinci (small) to local somewhat known painter (large)?

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My suggestion is to put a list of map-specific conventions in the readme and loading screen, especially if they differ from a norm. I do that with v2 of my FM for openable windows.

 

Edit: oh, a stylized loot screen showing off what you nabbed sounds cool, maybe as a 3rd page on the stats screen.

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What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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  • Why on earth would you do that? If the door can open, then great, it's a functional door (even if it doesn't lead anywhere). But why would you make a door frobbable if it can't actually open? Unless you've made it locked but still frobbable, and there's no way to unlock it. I wouldn't like that, personally, as I'd then be encouraged to look around for a key that doesn't exist.
  • Not really. :) Those are good mapping practices, but this thread isn't really about how to make a good mission, it's about how to communicate things to the player (like what is loot, what is a door you can open, etc) when there's a benefit to communicating it in consistent ways across missions.

  • I was talking about locked doors. And the reason is that a mapper may not want the player to be able to know from the beginning where he can get in and where not. Personally I would not use this method either, but other mappers may have different opinions about that
  • Isn't the way of how to communicate things to the player a matter of mapping practice?

FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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OK here's a few ideas please feel free to shoot them down.

 

Consistent climbable objects, I've played a few missions where objects like banners or drainpipes have been made climbable, however these look identical to all the other banners and drainpipes in the mission that aren't climbable, so if you try one of the non climbable ones first you get the idea that none of them are and don't even try the later ones.

 

So my suggestion is that, if a normally non climbable object such as a banner or drainpipe or even a vertical plank is actually climbable then either it is distinguished from all the non climbable ones in some way, a note, a conversation or even the player saying "I wonder if I could climb up that" or all the similar objects are also made climbable, even if there's nowhere to go if you do.

 

A minor aesthetic point the setting should be rational, for example when I'm playing a mission and I go into a sewer or an attic and I find large crates that won't fit through the way in, I always wonder how on earth they got them in there, if you have a confined space then everything in it should fit through some way into the space, this access does not need to be accessible to the player, someone could have built a wall after placing a statue, the entrance could have collapsed after the large crate was brought in, machinery could have been brought in in sections and assembled, but an area with a single tiny entrance containing a huge crate breaks my suspension of disbelief a bit, very minor point though.

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