could NPC AI detect the player by textures contrast and nearby movement?

[Professor Paul1290]

Oh dear, the Thieves are some kind of strange form of semi-reverse vampire that turns invisible in darkness and has a reflection anyway!

 

Maybe... somehow... yeah ask a wizard...

Edited October 31, 2014 by Professor Paul1290

[Springheel]

You can turn the player shadow on in the console, but we thought it was less obtrusive to omit the shadow than to have it there but ignored by AI.

[HMart]

This is a good time to ask for another move to the player: the prone on floor position. This would prevent the silhouette being perceived, considering all guards are always standing! Around the lightgem there could have a glow that indicates your silhouette was perceived, if you do not prone, on the 3rd glow (one per second), the guard that was suspicious will come to investigate, otherwise he will say "nah, that was nothing..." and continue moving the way he was before.

 

That is immersion breaking in my opinion, is enough already to have a moving bright spot below on the screen (the light gem), do not make it even more obvious with a extra glow.

 

 

 

Go prone on floor (the new asked feature),

or (another feature) put your body against the wall, touching it, lean on the wall (having somewhat the same effect as being prone, just less effective),

and finally look around if you can crouch again to be able to move faster, or sneak slowly to a safe place, or throw something to distract them. Anyway you have 3 glows (see above) before having to prone, may be enough to go into another room and change tactics, or just move from room to room, timely.

 

I think it could be cool in gameplay (and could be disabled too, call it ultra-hardcore or something), as long the player understands how he was detected it is ok, and he will have to learn how to play on this new mode only if he wants, because it will be much more challenging! The lightgem extra glow could be called something like "silhouette detection" even if it is not perfect detection, it would be good enough.

 

Why would the developers spend resources (time) on a feature that only a handful of people would play with. The majority i bet play on easy or medium only a few play on hard imagine a ultra hard. If is not a feature to be used even on low difficulties then imo is not worth it.

 

 

Please do focus on what is broken!!!

Just keep that idea in mind, it will make the game much more challenging! May be while you are browsing the code you find some way to put it on work easier than we are able to actually discuss about it

 

Yes it would be challenging and frustrating imo, if i'm on a shadow i'm on a shadow i should not worry about bright spots behind me, it is enough to worry about, my mission the loot around me the sound i make and the guards vision cones and patrols. Also this desired feature of yours was not even on the original thief games, so many thief players even the veterans aren't used to this.

If you want more challenge then try to play the game without any knock outs or killing anyone even if you have that options.

[Gussak]

That is immersion breaking in my opinion, is enough already to have a moving bright spot below on the screen (the light gem), do not make it even more obvious with a extra glow.

 

Interestingly enough, I still use a CRT monitor, and when the game is completely dark and I am at the light of a candle, when the lightgem is completely lit, I am forced to put my hand on the screen over the bright lightgem to block the light it creates on most of the monitor preventing me from seeing what is on the dark screen clearly!

 

Tho, I dont think it is completely immersion breaking to have the lightgem, I actually think it is quite really important to have it.

Just consider irl we have total notion of our surroundings.

We have extremely high screen resolution ( ), 3D vision, we can see (without moving the head) for about 235 degrees around us (some few womans seems able to even see more colors than others).

We can feel the wind, and all smells it brings, from an awful foe, a candle smoke, to the recently rained garden.

We have full 3D hearing (we can hear with our bones). You know if a sound comes from in-front of you or behind even if your ears are equally aligned tangentially.

We even have spatial notion, so when you move around in you home or on the streets, you can feel where you were and go back.

And on a PC what we get basically? a tiny screen, 2 ear phones that (I think) doesnt handle the full sound spectrum... a freaking keyboard&mouse that causes carpal tunnel.. non ergonomical position on chair and so on.. and finally the ultimate power of loading a game (better NPCs never know about it), that can break any possible navigation notion you were creating.

 

In short, we need lightgem and other indicators to compensate all sensorials we are missing, without having to freak out on our limited controls to provide better perception.

I still miss a 3D mini-map (if it is ever possible) with fogged undiscovered areas to prevent me from guessing where I was to not go there again..

 

Why would the developers spend resources (time) on a feature that only a handful of people would play with. The majority i bet play on easy or medium only a few play on hard imagine a ultra hard. If is not a feature to be used even on low difficulties then imo is not worth it.

 

For a very simple reason, because the game realism approach (where it has it, and I see a lot of it, in textures, light shadows, environment sfx, NPC AI etc) will become more credible, more natural.

By being more natural, you can expect NPCs reacting like you actually would irl, you would be less puzzled on their "blindness", and so, your tactics will be more natural too. The PGS based silhouette trick can even be used against NPCs if you play it properly.

 

Yes it would be challenging and frustrating imo, if i'm on a shadow i'm on a shadow i should not worry about bright spots behind me, it is enough to worry about, my mission the loot around me the sound i make and the guards vision cones and patrols. Also this desired feature of yours was not even on the original thief games, so many thief players even the veterans aren't used to this.

If you want more challenge then try to play the game without any knock outs or killing anyone even if you have that options.

 

Damn... I get frustrated when I go play a game and there is little challenge . Thats why I luv doom3+evo , and TheDarkMod (yes I think it is challenging, I just want more )

I usually never play vanilla games (only after modded), they are usually made to you complete them fast and promptly buy another and another. This is how society works in this whole freaking world. They make us believe and actually need money to survive, and so ppl exploit each other to make money. Relationships based on money is something freaking awful... This dont need be like that, we can evolve, but we all (as humanity) must discover how will it be together, we must imagine it, create it, try it to fix this whole mess that human society still is.

 

Why we need to stay in the past? to stick to old ideas? to imitate? we are creative, we can perceive what others havent perceived yet (so, they can too!).

Why your mission is what is specified in the objectives list? my mission is to make the coolest moves, to fight thru the best fights (reload and try other tactics), to try out the NPC AI to its most extents, to do what the AI still cannot (on probably all available games to the present): be creative. To do things in ways most ppl would pass thru ignoring, to find paths other ppl cant even imagine, or dont want to try to imagine, and be surprised when someone else found something I was unable too. Not to compare with others and feel good about it, that is pointless, comparison is pointless, comparison only breeds hatred and jealousy (unless it is faced by both sides as ways to improve each other). Everyone is very creative and perceptive, we just need to want be like that .

Edited November 3, 2014 by Gussak