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MirceaKitsune

Modern worlds (DeusEx themed)

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TDM and most of its players relate a lot to the Thief series. I only remember briefly playing what was probably the first Thief game, over approximately a decade ago... although I agree the idea and series are nice. I did however play a similar series from the same company since my late childhood: DeusEx. In regard to gameplay it's almost exactly like TDM... just that instead of a medieval setting, it's a futuristic one. You use electric batons instead of a blackjack, bullet and plasma weapons instead of a bow, notes you find around the world are digital instead of paper, there are often keypads instead of mechanical locks, and additionally computers you can hack or log into. Just like Thief fans created TDM out of a dream to make a FOSS game similar to it, I've been dreaming of creating an open world with stealth elements where the action takes place in a futuristic city during a modern dark age.

 

TDM already has the layout for exactly what I seek! Just one problem: There are no assets of this sort. No modern weapons, no computers or keypads, no robots to patrol the streets, so on. Obviously it's meant to take place in a steampunk setting, and I wouldn't suggest something as radical as changing that by default. But I was wondering if maybe, it could be possible to create a sci-fi package containing models / textures / sounds / entities for a futuristic city setting, alike to DeusEx - Invisible War. Which could be distributed as a mod, or even included if simply having the assets as part of TDM wouldn't ruin its theme.

 

Apart from having the right assets, there's also an additional problem: Some mechanics for modern worlds don't exist in the code itself. First of all this affects weapons: There's only one bow which shoots different arrows, and no way to implement a taser + pistol + shotgun + machine gun + sniper. Second problem is computers and keypads: There are currently no mechanics to make a monitor show an interactive window when used... in which you type a username or password to get a list of emails, a menu from which you can lock or unlock doors, activate or deactivate bots, and especially see images from cameras mounted around the map (which would involve the engine rendering from perspectives additional to your first person view). I imagine that a few of these things could be fixed via scripting, but not all.

 

Still, even with the current game code, a modern city environment would be somewhat possible. The model and animation of the existing bow could be replaced with a metal crossbow, and arrows given a metallic body instead of wood. The blackjack could look like a police baton, while the sword could be turned into a modern combat knife. Computer screens could simply act like existing books, and use a screen background while printing text you can scroll through. And until real keypads you can type on are introduced, the lock picking sounds and door animations could resemble hacking a digital lock. The rest is a matter of replacing leather clothing with modern civilian clothes or armor, gas lamps with modern street lamps, and adding modern props like trash bins + cars + vending machines + soda bottles + etc.

 

The good part is that there are already a lot of assets that could be used. Famous texture packages include trak5, philipk, ex, and possibly more (those can be found in Nexuiz / Xonotic). Example 1, example 2, example 3. I'm not sure under what license the Doom 3 assets were released under... since being able to use the weapons and marine characters there would certainly be fantastic!

 

In either case, what are your thoughts on this, and who else wants it? Would a modern environment be possible, and has anyone considered a TDM mod to allow for DeusEx style maps?

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-I dont think tdm can handle "open world" at this point.

-Doom 3 assets are proprietary, the engine is open source

-Anything is possible if you got the time and resources.

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By "open world" I meant cities like the existing ones, but maybe with more NPC characters and interactive things... so you meet more civilians in various locations and get multiple objectives about different matters from each. I played several missions and TDM handles large maps impressively well... if you learn to bare the huge loading times that is. So size and complexity don't seem like a limitation thankfully.

 

And I thought I heard that Doom 3 went FOSS as a whole, sad to hear it didn't. In either case there are good texture packages under a free license, like the ones I referenced in the first post. Simple objects and map details should be a piece of cake to find or model... if other people get involved in this effort I could attempt that part myself. Creating new weapon and player models would however be some work, and unless there's enough people who want futuristic missions on top of TDM no one might bother. But just like Thief, DeusEx was also pretty popular and loved, and there are hopefully other DX fans here who I can call to :smile:

Edited by MirceaKitsune

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There are lots of sci-fi mods around that might be willing to share assets. And most of the D3 code that supported sci-fi weapons, computer guis, etc, is probably still present in the TDM code. It wouldn't take much effort (relatively speaking) if you were able to wrestle up a few people who were interested in devoting time to it.

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I had this idea years ago. I think it'd be an awesome conversion. As for the assets, I thought of that too. NeoTokyo released their assets CC and IMO most of them are perfect, not just set pieces but AI models, weapons, sounds, animations. It'd basically be putting their game into our engine as an FPS game with stealth. There are probably lots of other sources too.

 

I think you'll need help like Spring said, but yeah a lot of the scifi systems are still there or easy to get from vanilla Doom 3 and port back in. I hope you stick with it since it's a dream project for me too. Good luck.

 

Edit. Doom 3 assets are off limits. Also this wouldn't be a TDM mod. It'd be a full on fork project you distribute separately with its own FMs.


What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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It wouldn't take much effort (relatively speaking) if you were able to wrestle up a few people who were interested in devoting time to it.

Just don't forget that "relatively speaking" still means a dedicated and skilled team working one or two years on the project instead of a dedicated and skilled team working several years on the project. It would still be a massive undertaking. Textures and basic models are relatively easy; constructing AI and writing code for new subsystems (like hacking, or skills) is a talent much fewer people possess.


Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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@bedhead, I thought a person could grab assets right out of the download. It's a HL2 mod. I meant the assets got released with the mod's release. The license is in there somewhere, but basically credit and noncommercial IIRC.


What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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I read somewhere that the code for interactive surfaces is part of the engine, and accessible via scripting. Does this mean that even a map for the existing game code could use them, via a custom map script? Or would TDM require some changes to re-add support for this? What about cameras mounted on walls, and the ability to see a live image feed on a screen from a different point on the map?

 

Otherwise I personally think 90% of the effort would be new assets only. Since apart from the simple weapon system and limitations to interactive computers, the existing functionality should be perfect as it is: Guards would still patrol the area and navigate geometry the same way, doors would still be unlocked or lock-picked all the same, objectives and loot would be handled as they are now, etc. It's mostly a matter of changing animations, models, textures, and sounds... or at least it seems like that should work.

 

And I'm not sure if this would mean an entire fork of TDM... I hope not since those usually divide a project. I was thinking they could simply be a new pk4 archive, which people who want modern missions can download separately and add to their darkmod folder. Problem is that, if modern missions would be distributed via the mission download menu, this package would have to be included with TDM. And that could be considered as changing its theme and direction, so I imagine this would involve rather major changes. Namely that TDM would no longer be considered "a platform for stealth games taking place in a medieval setting", but instead "a platform for stealth games"... meaning it wouldn't be related to a specific environment and could be more generic. If this wouldn't ruin its image or upset anyone, it doesn't sound like a bad thing to me really... of course it's not something for me to speak about, as such would be a sensitive admin matter.

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//And I'm not sure if this would mean an entire fork of TDM... I hope not since those usually divide a project. //

 

There's no question that it would be a separate project.

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The reason it has to be a separate project is that you'd need to change the source code in some fundamental ways that can't coexist with the current code. But I think if you make it people will come to it as a separate game, the same way Thief FM players also played DX and SS2 FMs.

 

If you want to do something you can package into a pk4, then you ought to just release a SciFi asset pack and probably sample map. You won't get new weapons or systems, but you could get the textures and models and maybe modern looking AI with lightsabres and photon arrows behaving like medieval guards. It'd be like john#'s or sliptip's SciFi Thief2 FMs. That's not as great as what you want, but could still be cool, and also it'd take much less work. Think about it.


What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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Well I'm not an expert (didn't even learn TDM mapping yet), but like I said I think the code changes needed would be minimal and optional. Modern cities and NPC's and weapons would likely be doable with the existing code, as long as the mission can radically change every relevant animation and model and sound and HUD element.

 

There is especially hope now that I learned a bit more about idTech4 scripting. Apparently TDM already allows custom weapons to be defined by missions, so maybe we can already add pistols and plasma guns! Also, interactive screens (like those in Doom 3) are an ability of the engine. Does anyone know if mission scripts can still tap into it, and simply implement a change to allow this if not?

Edited by MirceaKitsune

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I appreciate the idea, I am quite a fan of DeusEx:HumanRevolution!

"Can DeusExHR recreate itself in TDM? My answer is, I don't know." And I think it would be too difficult, like a total reconversion.

Anyway, I wouldn't mind some new assets and variety. What about a bowcaster? The projectiles deal more damage than the bow's and travel in an almost straight line, but it takes more time to charge, and it has the same range...

Edited by Netos

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