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Bikerdude

Video response to FenPhoenix 'LetsPlay' of Sir talbots collateral.

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To Fen, in response to your 'LetsPlay' of Sir Talbot's Collateral, that both frustrated me and had me laughing my tits off. Dude you really need to improve your game playing skills in The Darkmod you nutter :-)

- Part1

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbULlTTlj5Q&

- Part2

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz9UkEn1yu4&

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Ha ha, watch Bikerdude roleplay a slightly drunk burglar. :)

 

@Fen

Your let's plays are fun and I admire your rambling superpowers. Thank you for choosing our mission. I was looking forward to seeing someone else play it.

He is right about the rope arrow though. That bit drove me a little nuts too.

Edited by Baal

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Ha ha, watch Bikerude roleplay a slightly drunk burglar. :)

Where exactly? :)


"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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The sperm whale (Physeter macrocephalus), or cachalot, is the largest of the toothed whales and the largest toothed predator. It is the only living member of genus Physeter, and one of three extant species in the sperm whale family, along with the pygmy sperm whale and dwarf sperm whale of the genus Kogia.

 

Mature males average at 16 metres (52 ft) in length but some may reach 20.5 metres (67 ft), with the head representing up to one-third of the animal's length. The sperm whale feeds primarily on squid. Plunging to 2,250 metres (7,382 ft) for prey, it is the second deepest diving mammal, following only the Cuvier's beaked whale.[9] The sperm whale's clicking vocalization, a form of echolocation and communication, may be as loud as 230 decibels (re 1 µPa at 1 m) underwater,[10] making it the loudest sound produced by any animal. It has the largest brain of any animal on Earth, more than five times heavier than a human's. Sperm whales can live for more than 60 years.[11]

 

The sperm whale can be found anywhere in the open ocean. Females and young males live together in groups while mature males live solitary lives outside of the mating season. The females cooperate to protect and nurse their young. Females give birth every four to twenty years, and care for the calves for more than a decade. A mature sperm whale has few natural predators. Calves and weakened adults are taken by pods of orcas.

 

From the early eighteenth century through the late 20th, the species was a prime target of whalers. The head of the whale contains a liquid wax called spermaceti, from which the whale derives its name. Spermaceti was used in lubricants, oil lamps, and candles. Ambergris, a waste product from its digestive system, is still used as a fixative in perfumes. Occasionally the sperm whale's great size allowed it to defend itself effectively against whalers. The species is now protected by a whaling moratorium, and is currently listed as vulnerable by the IUCN.

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tl;dr

This thread is about as relevant as my post.

 

I watched his let's play and it was fine, everyone has different play styles. Of course you know the right places to look because you placed it there... Critiquing someone in such a way seems very unnecessary and doesn't really serve much purpose... Especially in the tone of the video above.

 

Tl;Dr you guys are pretentious dicks!

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Hey, I said that I like Fens videos and I doubt Biker was beeing overly serious. That might be typically british so I hope Fen doesn't take it the wrong way. :)

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  • This thread is about as relevant as my post.

Critiquing someone in such a way seems very unnecessary and doesn't really serve much purpose... Especially in the tone of the video above.

Tl;Dr you guys are pretentious dicks!

  • Did you not get your weatabix this morning? I had actually thought you were making a refernign to fuel oil comment..

See Baal's response.

Weatabix aside, wtf..?

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The video misses the point. FenPhoenix's aim is not to play correctly, but to entertain people on Youtube, which he does very well. There are LPs which show nigh perfect gameplay (check skacky's Youtube channel). For FenPhoenix, stumbling around is part of the fun.


Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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The video misses the point. FenPhoenix's aim is not to play correctly, but to entertain people on Youtube, which he does very well. There are LPs which show nigh perfect gameplay (check skacky's Youtube channel). For FenPhoenix, stumbling around is part of the fun.

It was a partly tounge in cheek poke at Fen, why are people taking it so seriously? That said you'd think after playing TDM for as long as he has his TDM skillz would have got to the point where he knows how to mantle.

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Biker, you know you can use the P key to quickly cycle through your lockpicks and the K key to quickly cycle through your keys! I would make a video but I really don't have anything more to add. :P

 

I thought the vids were fun to watch. I much prefer to watch someone very good at the game. Big part of why I never watch Let's Plays anymore.


You can call me Phi, Numbers, Digits, Ratio, 16, 1618, or whatever really, as long as it's not Phil.

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Ok. Lets call this thread Biker "Lets Plays" dealing with public criticism. He's stumbling through it just as crazily as Fen is stumbling through the game. It's pretty silly to call him pretentious. He's not even savvy enough to see that Fen's foibles are mostly an act.

 

I'll offer a clue:

 

On the children's show "Sesame Street" there is a segment called "Elmo's World" where one character named "Mister Noodle" is regularly asked to demonstrate a simple concept. Mr Noodle continually makes amusing "mistakes" where the children all correct him. He takes the children's advice and the proceeds to do the next part incorrectly until he is finally steered enough to the right solution.

 

Intentionally or unintentionally Fen is doing the same act but tailored for adults.

 

So here is a crazy chain of consequences:

 

Fen plays the mission poorly and struggles through in a way no experienced player would

 

Biker, not understanding the act, decides he should try to give him a few pointers and gently tease him back for the jabs Fen took at the mission

 

Goldwell, not understanding either or both of the above gets upset that either Biker giving a poor player a pretty patronizing lesson or gets upset that Biker is not appreciating Fens take and therefore is keeping up the act that Fens is just a regular player and is responding as if that were so

 

Nbohr1more has to clumsily stumble through the uncomfortable task of explaining that Biker is the furthest thing from pretentious. He is a simple Biker Dude who doesn't always get subtlety or sarcasm. He's a good honest working class dude who happens to be an excellent mapper. He's certainly no stuffed up snob or super genius.


Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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Biker, you know you can use the P key to quickly cycle through your lockpicks and the K key to quickly cycle through your keys!

I learn something new every day.

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Ok. Lets call this thread Biker "Lets Plays" dealing with public criticism. He's stumbling through it just as crazily as Fen is stumbling through the game. It's pretty silly to call him pretentious. He's not even savvy enough to see that Fen's foibles are mostly an act.

I'll offer a clue:

On the children's show "Sesame Street" there is a segment called "Elmo's World" where one character named "Mister Noodle" is regularly asked to demonstrate a simple concept. Mr Noodle continually makes amusing "mistakes" where the children all correct him. He takes the children's advice and the proceeds to do the next part incorrectly until he is finally steered enough to the right solution.

Intentionally or unintentionally Fen is doing the same act but tailored for adults.

So here is a crazy chain of consequences:

Fen plays the mission poorly and struggles through in a way no experienced player would

Biker, not understanding the act, decides he should try to give him a few pointers and gently tease him back for the jabs Fen took at the mission

Goldwell, not understanding either or both of the above gets upset that either Biker giving a poor player a pretty patronizing lesson or gets upset that Biker is not appreciating Fens take and therefore is keeping up the act that Fens is just a regular player and is responding as if that were so

Nbohr1more has to clumsily stumble through the uncomfortable task of explaining that Biker is the furthest thing from pretentious. He is a simple Biker Dude who doesn't always get subtlety or sarcasm. He's a good honest working class dude who happens to be an excellent mapper. He's certainly no stuffed up snob or super genius.

*Frantically writes an anonymous tip for the TDM INSIDER magazine*


Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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tee hee.

 

In the first 10 seconds a major flaw in map design is exposed yet you give Fen crap about it. (tongue in cheek or not)

 

So I try and mantle 2 pillars and can't, so the player should try the 3rd anyway? And the ivy hanging from the ledge is very inconspicuous, the pillars are covered in ivy and cac't be climbs but a thin little strand hanging from a window ledge can be jumped onto?

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Hmmm, pipes, wood structures, ivy, those are also used to give the world its texture, as decorative elements. If something clearly looks like it leads nowhere, and the mapper didnt make it climbable/frobable, its not meant to be used. Its the same principle as having doors and windows that are not openable, when clearly they are part of the scenery. Later in the map, you might see an ivy that actually leads somewhere, chances are you are supposed to climb it. Whats the big deal?

 

Some people take criticism better than others. So Biker decided to poke a bit of fun on Fen's gameplaying. Reviewers give mappers and game makers crap all the time. Surely we can all take a bit of jest, all grown ups here. Im not getting the bitterness.

Edited by RPGista

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Hmmm, pipes, wood structures, ivy, those are also used to give the world its texture, as decorative elements. If something clearly looks like it leads nowhere, and the mapper didnt make it climbable/frobable, its not meant to be used. Its the same principle as having doors and windows that are not openable, when clearly they are part of the scenery. Later in the map, you might see an ivy that actually leads somewhere, chances are you are supposed to climb it. Whats the big deal?

That kind of consistency is kind of a big deal. If one thick ivy surface in a map is climbable, than all ought to be climbable, because that's how expectations work. It is a game rule, like "rope arrows stick into wood". Players interpret the game space as areas they can, cannot and might reach, and if they don't "see" a crucial ivy or pipe as a climbable, they can draw false conclusions about navigability. If I see a wooden beam up high, and I have rope arrows, my first thought is to give it a try to see if anything's up there. If I see a waist-high wall, I expect it to be mantleable (and not blocked by an invisible wall, for instance). Clear and consistent rules are good practice. It is fair to have differences, like a thin strand of ivy or a small pipe not bearing the player's weight, but the signs should be logical, and perhaps even fairly obvious.

 

In my very first mission, I had some doors which were frobable but they could never be opened. It was a mistake, because players spent a lot of time trying to find ways through them, or blew them up with powder kegs to reveal blank walls or bad architecture. Of course, rules are meant to be broken, but it should be done carefully.


Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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Did everybody miss the vines? They were not supposed to be hidden but you never know what is obvious to players and what not.

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Hmmm, pipes, wood structures, ivy, those are also used to give the world its texture, as decorative elements. If something clearly looks like it leads nowhere, and the mapper didnt make it climbable/frobable, its not meant to be used. Its the same principle as having doors and windows that are not openable, when clearly they are part of the scenery. Later in the map, you might see an ivy that actually leads somewhere, chances are you are supposed to climb it. Whats the big deal?

 

Some people take criticism better than others. So Biker decided to poke a bit of fun on Fen's gameplaying. Reviewers give mappers and game makers crap all the time. Surely we can all take a bit of jest, all grown ups here. Im not getting the bitterness.

1: read Melan's Post

 

2: Why do you assume I'm bitter? I just think it's funny one person calling out another while inconsistencies like this are so obvious. And even calling out a player for not 'knowing' better. Did that player MAKE the mission? How would they know the mapper decided to be inconsistent.

 

Generally I try not to mantle or jump onto everything because IT MAKES NOISE when you fall back to the ground. Should players wander entire map making noise to find that one ivy? Or make death defying leaps HOPING the author made that one ivy grabable so they don't hit the ground, make a ton of noise, lose half their health and have to reload?

 

Am I bitter because I point that out?

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That kind of consistency is kind of a big deal. If one thick ivy surface in a map is climbable, than all ought to be climbable, because that's how expectations work. It is a game rule, like "rope arrows stick into wood". Players interpret the game space as areas they can, cannot and might reach, and if they don't "see" a crucial ivy or pipe as a climbable, they can draw false conclusions about navigability. If I see a wooden beam up high, and I have rope arrows, my first thought is to give it a try to see if anything's up there. If I see a waist-high wall, I expect it to be mantleable (and not blocked by an invisible wall, for instance). Clear and consistent rules are good practice. It is fair to have differences, like a thin strand of ivy or a small pipe not bearing the player's weight, but the signs should be logical, and perhaps even fairly obvious.

 

In my very first mission, I had some doors which were frobable but they could never be opened. It was a mistake, because players spent a lot of time trying to find ways through them, or blew them up with powder kegs to reveal blank walls or bad architecture. Of course, rules are meant to be broken, but it should be done carefully.

Yeah, of course youre right, but thats actually the point, there is no such "consistency". Some doors are not openable, we dont know why. Most of those dont have handles. Some windows, most windows, have light coming through, but theres no living room behind them, its just scenery. Its the same for everything. Some stuff you can pick up and throw,some you cant, the mapper didnt make them moveable. Some books you can read, some you cant. Some ropes you can climb, some not. No need to go on. Its all about the inner structure of the map. Readables and strong level design lead me to believe I should check every shelf in that library, each book, pretty sure the secret is in there. No such tips? I'll simply ignore it as scenery. See a vine there that leads to a half opened window? Pretty sure it is climbable. It isnt? Pretty sure theres another way in then. Any problems, thats what reloading is there for. Its a game. Like Baal says, its hard knowing what is clear to players. Mappers do worry about it, but some persistence from players is also necessary. Edited by RPGista

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But you don't fall and get hurt or make a ton of noise when you fail to open a non-frobable door.

 

Have you ever jumped at a hanging door just to see if you'd go through?

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Ha ha, watch Bikerdude roleplay a slightly drunk burglar. :)

 

@Fen

Your let's plays are fun and I admire your rambling superpowers. Thank you for choosing our mission. I was looking forward to seeing someone else play it.

He is right about the rope arrow though. That bit drove me a little nuts too.

I keep trying to explain about focus, how my eyes may be looking somewhere else than your eyes, and how occupying one's brain with speech - and thinking about what to say next - can and does cause attention-split between the game and the talk, and blah blah blah, but nobody seems to ever acknowledge me. :\ Also you guys know where the arrow is beforehand and I don't. But that's how let's plays are. "let's playing" is not "playing". You watch a blind LP, you'll get moments like that. I think "argh, come on dude" all the time when I watch LPs, but I don't go into the comments and give the player a hard time, because a) I understand how it is, and b ) really, how helpful is it? So I missed something, I apologize, it happens. I'm not perfect, it's blind and I don't know where stuff is. I'm not psychic either. I can't just automatically know there's something almost pitch black and thin hiding in a dark corner I can barely see. And, I repeat and emphasize, a screen is a huge area and if I'm looking even slightly off of where you're looking I may not see what you see. Plus I have to focus on talking, while you the viewers don't have to.

 

Anyhow, I'm a hypocrite because here I am explaining why you should stop letting annoying things bother you, whereas I'm letting annoying things bother me. :P So I guess I'm done with my spiel.

Edited by FenPhoenix

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