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Has Anyone thought of a Thief Gold Remake In TDM?


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2 hours ago, chakkman said:

and Splinter Cell, which is a better shooter now.

I would agree with that with respect to Splinter Cell Conviction, but Blacklist is true to the core gameplay of Splinter Cell. Conviction had fun coop, though, albeit action rather than real stealth.

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The only thing that was well done in Thief4 was the the visuals (and that's only if you ignore the terrible character designs). The story was a complete and utter trainwreck and the writing was f

Thief 2014 started out quite exciting, with that big hub-area, but after some time, you notice its problems and so it gets boring quickly. Linear level sections Inability to return to p

Legal issues and hard work aside, I don't see the point to making such a remake anyway. It's just going to be Thief Gold but with better graphics and Dark Mod mechanics. Surely something more interest

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Not quite. You never could play the Splinter Cell's like a shooter. Blacklist gives you the option to play stealthy (which IMO is pretty superimosed...), or like a bog standard action game. Actually, some of the side/special missions are completely shooter like. Apart from that, there weren't any RPG, or crafting systems in the old Splinter Cell's either. And, those don't really make sense either. A commando is a commando, and doesn't buy its weapons himself, nor does it train itself. It's just dumb Ubisoft type gameplay for the current audience.

Sorry, I really hate what they made out of that great series. The last real Splinter Cell was Double Agent, the original vversion for the Xbox 1 and PS2, not the shitty PC version. Anything which came after that merely shares the name, and tries to make $$$ from it.

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Don't know what this thread is even about anymore, but since we're on the topic of bashing Thief 2014, I'll just add that I more or less agree with STiFU and New Horizon. I don't remember the game well enough to say one thing or another about the AI or the sound, but as a game bearing the Thief-title, it was pretty miserable.

It's like they took the success of Human Revolution as a sign that they should just re-skin it as a Thief game and call it a day. Almost like they never played the original trilogy. I think TotalBiscuit wrote something along the lines of "I enjoyed it, but it's not really for the fans of the series", which sounds about right. Had I never played the other games, I may have enjoyed it much more. I had my qualms with Deadly Shadows, such as the technical issues, loading screens, and some design stuff, but I enjoyed it a hell of a lot more than 2014.

It is a shame, since I loved Human Revolution, close to my favorite game ever, and it had to live up to the legendary original as well. Worth mentioning I played Human Revolution first, so who knows what my opinion would be if it were the other way around.  I'm a much newer fan of these two series, I played them around 2012-2014, so not exactly an old school fan yearning for the "good old days".

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Let's be honest though: The Deus Ex reboots have a lot of what modern games are about these days. They're not as close to the original as has been stated here. They're nice games in their own rights, but, they're not exactly very close successors.

I thoroughly enjoyed them, but, that doesn't change that they're modern games, with all the pros (graphics, technique), and cons (modern good/evil themes, lots of cutscenes and spectacle, holding the player's hand, dumbed down mechanics) they have.

IIRC, the TTLG forum user ZylonBane made quite a funny video about Human Revolution once. While I don't fully agree with his obvious assessment that it's arcade-a-licious, I found the video quite ntertaining. :)

Edit: Found it, lol.

 

TBH, if you just take a look at all the crap in the interface these days, it becomes obvious where modern games differ from the old ones.

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I don't have a whole lot of reverence for either side, so I don't particularly mind stuff being either modernized or having old school traits. For example, I think the GMDX mod for the original Deus Ex makes the game better. If nothing else, just the act of not having to activate every damn augmentation separately makes it so much less clunky. On the flipside, when I played Prey 2017, I happily accepted all the optional modifiers, such as weapon degradation, for that extra challenge. I guess you could call those old school features.

In Thief 2014's case, it just removed almost all the fun I had come to associate with Thief games, and replaced it with pretty much nothing worth mentioning. Like Deadly Shadows, I enjoyed them further explore the atmospheric city hub design, but the main campaign missions are just so poor. Out of the original campaigns, it's my most recently played, and I don't remember anything about it, other than the Cradle ripoff.

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23 minutes ago, Springheel said:

The constant player animations were clunky and annoying at the best of times (I stopped picking up scissors because of them) and in the worst cases actually moved you from the shadow to the light, resulting in detections that otherwise wouldn't happen.

The "swoop" was a blatant ripoff of the Dishonored blink ability.

 

I wish the swoop was an actual ripoff, and not the sorry excuse we got instead. I really hate how you can't even jump in the game.

As for the animations, in a post I wrote about the game on another forum back when I finished it, I pondered how much of the 32 hours was spent either on loading screens, or squeezing through narrow spots or opening windows and hatches. It got kind of tiring watching those over and over, realism be damned.

Had to go and fish my own post from back in the day, my abridged thoughts on the game are in the spoiler.
 

Spoiler

 

- Focus powers/RPG upgrades were useless

- Movement is refined, but "comes with consequences" (not sure why I didn't just write that it's incredibly awkward and restrictive)

- Rope arrows are lame now, takedowns ala Human Revolution are cool

- City hub is the most Thief-like stuff you'll ever do in the game

- Loading screens and animations for movement are tedious as all hell

- Main story mission design is awful (linear, no running back and forth, always end in cinematic after reaching point X, etc)

- Like Thief 1, you barely have any missions where you do any thieving, albeit the first game has much better mission design

- Story is all over the place, not bad per se, but not memorable. Sad there's no original VA, but the new one did a great job until he started shouting (I guess if you say so, past me)

- Repeating the TB quote, stealth fans might want to give it a go, Thief fans maybe not

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Springheel said:

The "swoop" was a blatant ripoff of the Dishonored blink ability.

I don't think so. The Dishonored blink was much more powerful. The swoop in Thief 2014 rather was a concession to the casual console crowd for me, to make the game easier. 

I also don't think all the other points you stated are "objectionable" per se. Rather seems like your opinion, which is fair enough.

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49 minutes ago, Springheel said:

The voice acting was painful (and especially galling given that they could have had Stephen Russell--I only recently discovered that he voiced Corvo in Dishonored 2) .

Yes, he did. Not sure about the "could have had" though. I think I remember that he declined to do the voice acting for Thief 2014. Not sure now though, I might be wrong.

Anyway, I'm sure the diehard fans would have bashed on it even more if he had done the voice acting. In TDS, Stephen Russel also didn't save it from getting trashed by them.

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59 minutes ago, roygato said:

In Thief 2014's case, it just removed almost all the fun I had come to associate with Thief games, and replaced it with pretty much nothing worth mentioning. Like Deadly Shadows, I enjoyed them further explore the atmospheric city hub design, but the main campaign missions are just so poor. Out of the original campaigns, it's my most recently played, and I don't remember anything about it, other than the Cradle ripoff.

I'm surprised that you don't remember - the whore house, the foundry, Eastwick Manor, or the Asylum. But then, I don't remember a lot of stuff in games I don't enjoy as well, so, that might be the answer.

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I STILL haven't finished Thi4f. I keep going back to it but get annoyed by the constraints of movement. No jumping, no mantling except on special surfaces, no rope arrows, the awful repetitive animations (beautifully made though).

Honestly the worst part if the level design. Each level is incredibly linear with almost no side content. Just always move forward. Sometimes you'll get to an area that has 2 or 3 paths, but those seem really rare.

 

I rage quit at the point where I was in the vault, and I had to get back out.

Normally I would just mantle onto the railing, and jump over to the other side (it was like 5 feet away), but nooooooooooo, you have to go back and play the waiting game with the roaming guard. But I do understand that mantling and run jumping and grabbing ledges is the domain of mouse and keyboard, another stupid concession to console gamers I guess. (I'm salty as fuck this morning, can you tell? lol.)

 

 

I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

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17 minutes ago, chakkman said:

Yes, he did. Not sure about the "could have had" though. I think I remember that he declined to do the voice acting for Thief 2014. Not sure now though, I might be wrong.

Anyway, I'm sure the diehard fans would have bashed on it even more if he had done the voice acting. In TDS, Stephen Russel also didn't save it from getting trashed by them.

No, I remember quite clearly that he was available.  They even had him in to do some early tests, apparently, but they chose to go in a "different direction".

Obviously good voice acting isn't going to hide all the other flaws, but it would remove that flaw from the roster.

 

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Quote

The original Thief voice actor Stephen Russell has a lot of fans; did you pursue him to play Garret?
We were all very big fans of Stephen Russell’s previous work on Thief – the originals would not have been what they were without him. However we did not make Thief 4; this was a new entry into the series, and we wanted to make sure that we weren’t presenting a carbon copy of the previous games and the previous Garrett.

Which shows how dumb they are, by calling the main character Garrett, and making one of his eyes different. Cause it's not a previous Garrett and it's not Thief 4......Fucking morons.

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I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

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Good call actually. They went for a reboot, so, anything which is the same as in the originals would have let to even more expectation that... the game is the same as the originals.

Anyway, I think the discussion really is about taste more than anything else. What I wanted to say is that some didn't give the game a fair chance, and, I stick to that. Again, I can see where people are coming from, I hate where some franchises developed (Tomb Raider, Splinter Cell, Wolfenstein). It's just that, sometimes, you really have to keep a sense of proportion, especially when the game is obviously a reboot, which isn't supposed to be like the original. What I also always find hard to accept is that the target audience for games simply changed. The games they do nowadays are games they create for the 20 to 30 year olds. Not the people who already played games 20 years ago.

Funnily, that's basically what this whole mod is about. :D Release that as a commercial games, and the sales figures would be abysmal... nobody wants to play something like that these days. That's why I'm thankful that, every now and then, they even still do a real stealth game.

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56 minutes ago, chakkman said:

Good call actually. They went for a reboot, so, anything which is the same as in the originals would have let to even more expectation that... the game is the same as the originals.

 

You know what raises expectations about the game being the same as the originals?  Giving it the same title as the originals and calling the protagonist the same name as the originals and pretending like it is a continuation of the same story as the originals in your marketing materials.

If they wanted to make their own unique stealth game, they could have come up with their own title and their own protagonist, like Arcane Studios did successfully.

 

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1 hour ago, chakkman said:

I'm surprised that you don't remember - the whore house, the foundry, Eastwick Manor, or the Asylum. But then, I don't remember a lot of stuff in games I don't enjoy as well, so, that might be the answer.

Oh yeah, there was the whorehouse. I have a vague memory of the last cutscene, and one peephole.

In the game's defense, and somewhat contradicting my own point, playing through anything only once makes it harder to retain information in the long run. And it's been half a decade now.

1 hour ago, AluminumHaste said:

Which shows how dumb they are, by calling the main character Garrett, and making one of his eyes different. Cause it's not a previous Garrett and it's not Thief 4......Fucking morons.

Should've just called it "Robber", starring Gary the criminal.

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1 minute ago, Springheel said:

You know what raises expectations about the game being the same as the originals?  Giving it the same title as the originals and calling the protagonist the same name as the originals and pretending like it is a continuation of the same story as the originals in your marketing materials.

If they wanted to make their own unique stealth game, they could have come up with their own title and their own protagonist, like Arcane Studios did successfully.

 

No disagreement there. Of course they chose the title for the $$$, like in many other franchises. And, yes, it would have been better to give it a different names, and give the other character different names.

There's nothing preventing you from imagining an alternative universe/timeline though. Which is basically what I did. Also helps that there are no Hammerites, or Pagans in there.

Anyway, Dishonored is definitely the better game, no doubt about that.

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2 hours ago, Springheel said:

If they wanted to make their own unique stealth game, they could have come up with their own title and their own protagonist, like Arcane Studios did successfully.

Later though Arkane Studios made the same error by calling their take on "System Shock 3" "Prey", and of course if flopped as well. I think people underestimate how much expectations matter!

Edited by wesp5
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13 minutes ago, wesp5 said:

Later though Arkane Studios made the same error by calling their take on "System Shock 3" "Prey", and of course if flopped as well. I think people underestimate how much expectations matter!

What you mean, they obviously called it Prey to cash in on the Prey 2006 money. /s

Prey 2017 was awesome though. Certainly makes it matter less if we never get SS3 from Night Dive or anybody else.

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5 hours ago, Springheel said:

in the worst cases actually moved you from the shadow to the light, resulting in detections that otherwise wouldn't happen.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. It was awful. Rather than just raising your blackjack, you'd actually dive forward out of your hiding spot, right into the light where the guard was standing, and then stand there through a 3-second "muffle the guard's mouth and lower the body" animation. At which point every other guard in the area was coming straight for you.

Do I remember correctly that some of the "blackjack" animations actually involved kicking the guard in the balls, or am I just imagining the game to be even more cheesy than it was?

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1 hour ago, roygato said:

What you mean, they obviously called it Prey to cash in on the Prey 2006 money. /s

Exactly, but I would guess that many people expected something similar to the original "Prey", a linear shooter with portals before Portal, gravity anomalies and other cool stuff. Instead they got a "System Shock" clone with endlessly respawning enemies inside the same few maps like the original. Which of course would be great for people wanting an immersive sim like this, but for all others it would be a big dissapointment for a game called "Prey". Like sticking the title "Thief" and the name "Garret" to a game and then not delivering what this should promise!

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2 minutes ago, wesp5 said:

Exactly, but I would guess that many people expected something similar to the original Prey, like a linear shooter with portals before Portal, gravity anomalies and other cool stuff. Instead they got a System Shock clone immersive sim with endless respawning enemies inside the same few maps like the original. Which of course would be great for people wanting this, but for others it would be a big dissapointment. Like sticking the title Thief and the name Garret to a game and then not delivering what this should mean!

Was the original Prey actually popular enough for that to have been a realistic scenario? I would imagine the game flopping more because nobody knew it even existed. At least personally, I properly learned about it quite after the fact.

That said, it is odd they used the Prey title at all, since it's not like it was meant to be a reboot or have any connection whatsoever, as far as I'm aware.

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52 minutes ago, roygato said:

Was the original Prey actually popular enough for that to have been a realistic scenario?

I don't know, but I would guess a lot of older FPS players knew and I for one was pretty pissed when I heard that they used the name to promote a completely different game. If you didn't even know about it, that's another proof that this approach failed completely!

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