Has Anyone thought of a Thief Gold Remake In TDM?

[chakkman 406]

I knew it, but, I was never interested in the original Prey, so, no complaints here that the reboot isn't quite what the Prey players expected.

I can understand the confusion though. It's weird that they used the same name. I must say that Prey was probably under the top 5 of the best games I've played, ever, so, I don't think it deserves much of a slap.

[New Horizon 534]

12 hours ago, chakkman said:

Yes, he did. Not sure about the "could have had" though. I think I remember that he declined to do the voice acting for Thief 2014. Not sure now though, I might be wrong.

They had him.  There was an unreleased Trailer that got leaked.  He was brought in and considered but ultimately they dropped him because they wanted the voice actor playing Garrett to be able to do the motion capture nonsense.

[Bluehawk 17]

It's almost merciful though, because they would've had him reading an awful script.

[JackFarmer 526]

18 hours ago, Springheel said:

The story was a complete and utter trainwreck and the writing was full of cliches

 

Erin: "I am better than you, you cannot teach me anything!!!"

Garrett: "It's not about how much you steal, but what and how you steal."

 

17 hours ago, AluminumHaste said:

I STILL haven't finished Thi4f. I keep going back to it but get annoyed by the constraints of movement. No jumping, no mantling except on special surfaces, no rope arrows, the awful repetitive animations (beautifully made though).

I stopped where you had to escape from a burning building.

To this day I have not understood how they could screw it up so badly. But then I remember that someone from the forum once mentioned he met with Eidos people in Montreal and some of them didn't even know what Thief was. That certainly doesn't explain everything, but quite a lot.

Edited February 14 by JackFarmer

[chakkman 406]

Thanks to you all for making me feel like a complete weirdo now, because I actually like Thief 2014.

Just kidding.

[AluminumHaste 1083]

5 hours ago, JackFarmer said:

Erin: "I am better than you, you cannot teach me anything!!!"

Garrett: "It's not about how much you steal, but what and how you steal."

 

I stopped where you had to escape from a burning building.

To this day I have not understood how they could screw it up so badly. But then I remember that someone from the forum once mentioned he met with Eidos people in Montreal and some of them didn't even know what Thief was. That certainly doesn't explain everything, but quite a lot.

I do remember an interview either on tape or written, where some of the devs mentioned they were not fans of the stealth genre and Thief games in general.

It would explain they high turnover rate at the dev house in Montreal.

[New Horizon 534]

14 hours ago, JackFarmer said:

Erin: "I am better than you, you cannot teach me anything!!!"

Garrett: "It's not about how much you steal, but what and how you steal."

 

I stopped where you had to escape from a burning building.

To this day I have not understood how they could screw it up so badly. But then I remember that someone from the forum once mentioned he met with Eidos people in Montreal and some of them didn't even know what Thief was. That certainly doesn't explain everything, but quite a lot.

Yeah, Eidos Montreal was a train wreck.  The Thief Source code was given to them twice in order to try and get the right people to approve officially releasing it to the fans.  They lost it both times.  Infuriating.  They were just the wrong people for the job.

[Destined 631]

On 2/14/2021 at 1:37 PM, chakkman said:

Thanks to you all for making me feel like a complete weirdo now, because I actually like Thief 2014.

Just kidding.

I also actually liked the game. Not enough to play it a second time, but I could see past the most annoying stuff and enjoyed it. Although I also have to say that the story was really shallow, especially compared to the older games. But stuff like not being able to jump all the time never bothered me that much. But maybe I am just too complacent...

[chakkman 406]

2 hours ago, Destined said:

But maybe I am just too complacent...

No no, I fully understand your criticism, as I understand the criticism of the other people here. It's just that it didn't ruin the game for me, because, in my opinion, there's a lot to like in it. The game world is fantastic, for example, as are the visuals and atmosphere.

Edited February 18 by chakkman

[Destined 631]

I agree on that.

[Subjective Effect 24]

Thief 1 is ripe for a remake. 

A proper remake. Make it a VR game. 

[chakkman 406]

The question is, who in a sane mind state would publish something like that? Even the original Thief's weren't really financial successes, let alone in 2021, where the stealth genre is dead. Well, deader than dead.

TDM is as good as it gets in that regard. You won't see a new Thief, that's for sure.

[AluminumHaste 1083]

On 3/6/2021 at 8:23 AM, Subjective Effect said:

Thief 1 is ripe for a remake. 

A proper remake. Make it a VR game. 

Awesome idea, would be great, but now you're talking Niche market (stealth sim) on top of Niche (VR), you would make no money on a product like that sadly.

[Subjective Effect 24]

Well you have to play to the market, so I always thought a emergent gameplay with tons of options would work. 

I imagine RPG elements, a bit like Dishonored, where you can choose stealth or combat skill trees. As long as the game is set mostly at night you could build it so that people can play however they want, but keep within that the option to play in hardcore stealth mode.

And of course, have VR as an option but not make it a VR only game. 

[New Horizon 534]

On 3/8/2021 at 9:01 AM, chakkman said:

The question is, who in a sane mind state would publish something like that? Even the original Thief's weren't really financial successes, let alone in 2021, where the stealth genre is dead. Well, deader than dead.

TDM is as good as it gets in that regard. You won't see a new Thief, that's for sure.

Thief The Dark Project was definitely a financial success and a critical success as well at the time.  The problem was that Looking Glass was already in bad shape financially and Thief's success was far too late to save the company.

The issue with making a game like Thief today is a studio like Eidos Montreal insisting that it be a multi-million dollar AAA title, when it's not really that type of game.  It's more of an indie title.  Can you imagine how much all that motion capture cost to produce?  Did it serve the game beyond being eye candy?

I personally think a game like Thief is a prime candidate for a release that actually uses the original engine, updated somewhat, but holding onto the visual style of the original games.  A retro look.  It has been done in recent years and seems to have been well received. 

I think we're past the  point of having to constantly update the graphics and can instead focus on choosing a style that best suits the game.  Thief just felt right in the dark engine, kind of a product of the time.  I think when you take it out of that, it loses a lot of the character

[chakkman 406]

How many copies do you think will it sell with such an antiquated tech?

You say that motion capturing of Thief served no purpose. Of course it served a purpose. The vast majority of gamers these days are completely visuals centric. That's why you often have a gameplay which is thin like a piece of paper, but the latest awesome graphics tech. Games like Assassins Creed more or less play automatically while the player "enjoys" it like a movie.

Times change, and people changed. That's the main issue. But, frankly, I don't think Thief attracted the mig mass, even back then. You say it was a commercial success. The question is, on which scale? Highly doubt that it was as successful as stuff like Half-Life.

[HMart 343]

IMO Thief was certainly not successful as HL, for example I never heard of it before thief 3 came out, while I knew about HL very fast and early because all my friends talked about it and passed it along. 

About making a new thief game on the old dark engine, imo is totally possible, I don't believe will ever happen but is possible, but some graphical updates most be done to the engine, if not even old school gamers would look at it funny.  None of the retro games that I know use the pure old engine and graphics, they all implemented modern stuff in the render, is just not realistic to expect a large number of modern gamers, to accept a new game, looking like a pure game made in the 90's.

For example look at Solaco  is retro and modern at the same time but still this developers don't expect to sell to the level of AAA games, is a nich market game, is retro but still add to update the engine to be able to realisticaly sell and gain support. 

Another example of a old school retro game that still looks "old" but is modern at the same time. 

https://www.moddb.com/mods/wasteland-gentek/videos/wasteland-smith-wesson-model-29-part-2

Edited March 9 by HMart

[New Horizon 534]

2 hours ago, chakkman said:

How many copies do you think will it sell with such an antiquated tech?

You say that motion capturing of Thief served no purpose. Of course it served a purpose. The vast majority of gamers these days are completely visuals centric. That's why you often have a gameplay which is thin like a piece of paper, but the latest awesome graphics tech. Games like Assassins Creed more or less play automatically while the player "enjoys" it like a movie.

Times change, and people changed. That's the main issue. But, frankly, I don't think Thief attracted the mig mass, even back then. You say it was a commercial success. The question is, on which scale? Highly doubt that it was as successful as stuff like Half-Life.

I think you missed my point.

What did that extra expense add to the Thief gameplay?  Did it serve the type of game Thief is?  I don't believe it did.  It continued the Deadly Shadows trend of limiting player movement and choice.  

They scaled Thief up to a AAA budget...a niche title...and in doing so watered it down to the point where it really didn't stand out anymore.

I test games for a living.  I've seen all kinds come through our doors and there is a very decent market for games that 'look' retro but play on modern systems.  I've tested games inspired by classics like Ghouls and Ghosts, Quake, etc.  There have been some recent games built using 20+ year old tech that has been modestly updated to retain the aesthetic of those older titles but still be a modern game.  

Basically, that look for a game is no longer seen as a limitation, it's an artistic choice.  It's a style.  

So, for the type of game Thief is...my suggestion would be to NOT scale it up to AAA costs but rather work within the style that best serves the game and the gameplay.  The costs would be lower, production time would be shorter.   The studio wouldn't have to push as many units to break even and they might even make a decent profit given how games can be more easily distributed on Steam now.

[chakkman 406]

TBH, I doubt I'd be content with a game like that. It would have to be at least like the System Shock remake Nightdive is doing. So, the only way I could imagine a game being financed like that would be a crowdfunder, and, I'm not sure if there's enough interest for that.

Frankly, I wouldn't want a new game based on the original Thief engine in 2021. I know it's a lot of effort to develop on a modern engine, but, you know... Thief already looked dated back when it came out. I'm not at all an aesthetician when it comes to looks, but... that's just too ugly. I can play those games when I want to play some old stuff, but, putting work into such an old tech, when you can have all the advantages of the new tech seems a bit useless to me.

Edited March 9 by chakkman

[New Horizon 534]

Well, obviously the textures are going to be higher res but still retain some semblance of the originals.  Models could be higher poly count but not outrageous.  I think with Thief, the look of the game was actually part of what made it work.  I honestly think there is a market for it.

The engine still exists and New Dark has been updated quite a bit already.  The main thing though is that all the proven systems...sound / visual...they're already in place.  Improvements can be made...and the engine already had some unused enhancements that just didn't get ironed out before the release of Thief 2. 

There was an early facial animation system in place, some early work on bump mapping...all kinds of tid bits that could be expanded upon and still deliver a Thief game will all the things that made it great.

It's an artistic choice in todays Market.  It's no longer about all games must use the latest and greatest, developers can choose which style best suits the tone of the game they're trying to make.

[HMart 343]

Personally I totally agree with New Horizon you can make a retro looking game look has fresh has a modern game with clever art direction. Case in point. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgrLN9Wl4xU

and 

 

[wesp5 356]

I don't think we need any of this, we already have TDM with much better graphics than Thief and very close gameplay!

Edited March 9 by wesp5

[Subjective Effect 24]

Imma have to install TDM again, aren't I?

Question - how will it run on an ultrawidescreen? 

[AluminumHaste 1083]

Meh, performance might not be great depending on your hardware, guis still stretched.

But I think you might be able to pick your resolution from the menu now.