NeonsStyle [Work In Progress]

[Obsttorte 1524]

How is this done Obsttorte? I know how to use those movers, but not how to mix them.

As mentioned above you can bind different mover types to each other and then bind the boat to this setup, and let it move along a spline. That's a bit messy for my testing, though, not to mention the movement will probably get a bit repetetive after while. If you use a func_mover (which you need for the spline movement anyways) it makes more sense to create the bobbing and swinging of the boat via script, which also has the benefit of randomizing it a bit more. It heavely depends on your specific use-case how complex the setup has to be.

 

In regards to the player you can either bind a toggleable, invisible wall to the boat or immobilize the player while the boat is moving, so he doesn't fall into the water I would prefer the latter (easier).

 

BTW: For the future it might be worth considering performance before and during your mapping progress, and not only towards the end. This way you don't have to fallback to such auxiliary solutions.

[NeonsStyle 586]

Two questions:

 

1. Is it possible to change the colour of a glass texture? I want a very specific colour for a glass sculpture in a shop window in a glassware shop in my Venice map. You

can't do Venice without a Glassware shop. lol

 

2. Is it possible to change the colour of a water entity? Venice has very green murky water, and we have the green_thick_murk texture,

but you can see the bottom clearly. Bikerdude solved the clarity problem both above and below the water, but the colour is very grey blue

and it really needs to be grey green. Is it possible?

[Obsttorte 1524]

Two questions:

 

1. Is it possible to change the colour of a glass texture? I want a very specific colour for a glass sculpture in a shop window in a glassware shop in my Venice map. You

can't do Venice without a Glassware shop. lol

 

2. Is it possible to change the colour of a water entity? Venice has very green murky water, and we have the green_thick_murk texture,

but you can see the bottom clearly. Bikerdude solved the clarity problem both above and below the water, but the colour is very grey blue

and it really needs to be grey green. Is it possible?

1. Yes
2. Yes

 

The only precaution is that the material in question uses the colored keyword. Such materials are normally named _colored, _colorme or similar. In that case you can vary the color using the _color spawnarg.

[Destined 621]

You can also create a new material file for the glass textures, if it does not have the colored keyword. Then, you can create a new skin for any objects that use the material you want to colour. I've done this for some of Springheel's modules with a plain white plaster texture to introduce some colour (but unfortunately lost the files in my latest HD crash), so if you need help setting it up you can PM me.

[Obsttorte 1524]

You can also create a new material file for the glass textures, if it does not have the colored keyword. Then, you can create a new skin for any objects that use the material you want to colour. I've done this for some of Springheel's modules with a plain white plaster texture to introduce some colour (but unfortunately lost the files in my latest HD crash), so if you need help setting it up you can PM me.

This is fine if you only need one new color, but if you want several ones or want to change it later on this can become a quiet tiresome approach.

[peter_spy 1603]

If you want the high quality though, and especially if that's a dedicated object, you'd want manual approach. The best way to create high quality glass is to work with standard _d, _n, _s material with translucent keyword, and then to add the heathazewithdepth program stage to simulate refraction (you'll need a dedicated normalmap to do this). You may also need a cubemap to fake the glass reflecting the environment a bit better. This is one of the most complex material you can have in the game, and the glass is one of the hardest effects to fake in games, so it might take some time to get it right.

[Destined 621]

This is fine if you only need one new color, but if you want several ones or want to change it later on this can become a quiet tiresome approach.

Why? Especially if you want several colours, it is better to add the colored keyword to an existing material, as you can change the colour in via spawnarg in DR. You need one for each material you want to change and need a new skin for each model using the new material, which admittedly is quite tiresome, and you can not change several colours in one model, as it uses the one spawnarg for the whole model, but once set up, you have all colours of the rainbow at your disposal for that model. All in all it is not perfect, but for a couple of materials (e.g. plaster) it is quite helpful. You just have to be careful, which colours you can use as many (especially very saturated colours) look very unnatural.

 

If you want the high quality though, and especially if that's a dedicated object, you'd want manual approach. The best way to create high quality glass is to work with standard _d, _n, _s material with translucent keyword, and then to add the heathazewithdepth program stage to simulate refraction (you'll need a dedicated normalmap to do this). You may also need a cubemap to fake the glass reflecting the environment a bit better. This is one of the most complex material you can have in the game, and the glass is one of the hardest effects to fake in games, so it might take some time to get it right.

I have no experience with glass in regard to the colored keyword and I completely agree that it will not yield the best results regarding quality. He would have to test and see the results. For the plaster texture, it works quite well.

[NeonsStyle 586]

So it's the same as changing the colour of a texture? I did this with the buildings.

 

Judith, I have no idea how to do that. I would love for it to be high quality as it's a sculpture that would fit in well in a Venice glass shop,

but the glass textures we have look pretty crap on it to be honest. What I'd like is that green plate glass look. (the green on the edge of plate glass).

 

I'll try messing with the _coloured_ and see if I can get something acceptable. I used that blue glass, but oddly it glows blue. lol

[peter_spy 1603]

I can take a look at that, if you provide the model and the textures.

[Obsttorte 1524]

Why? Especially if you want several colours, it is better to add the colored keyword to an existing material, as you can change the colour in via spawnarg in DR. You need one for each material you want to change and need a new skin for each model using the new material, which admittedly is quite tiresome, and you can not change several colours in one model, as it uses the one spawnarg for the whole model, but once set up, you have all colours of the rainbow at your disposal for that model. All in all it is not perfect, but for a couple of materials (e.g. plaster) it is quite helpful. You just have to be careful, which colours you can use as many (especially very saturated colours) look very unnatural.

 

I have no experience with glass in regard to the colored keyword and I completely agree that it will not yield the best results regarding quality. He would have to test and see the results. For the plaster texture, it works quite well.

He was talking about changing the glass/water color only, not several colors on one model! And with your approach a new material/skin is needed, too. I don't really get your point here. :|

 

If you want the high quality though, and especially if that's a dedicated object, you'd want manual approach. The best way to create high quality glass is to work with standard _d, _n, _s material with translucent keyword, and then to add the heathazewithdepth program stage to simulate refraction (you'll need a dedicated normalmap to do this). You may also need a cubemap to fake the glass reflecting the environment a bit better. This is one of the most complex material you can have in the game, and the glass is one of the hardest effects to fake in games, so it might take some time to get it right.

I don't see how it will worsen quality if you color an existing glass material using the colored keyword, especially as there are already a couple of glass materials using it. The quality will be the same as with the standard, uncolored material. Your point is valid if you want to have better or different looking glass/water as shipped with the mod, but again, that wasn't what he was asking for.

 

And even following your approach I don't see a reason not to use the colored keyword. The only exception would be if you don't want the material to be colored uniformly.

[peter_spy 1603]

No, I wouldn't want to have a uniform color for any material, as it looks too artificial. It also depends on how the model was unwrapped. If it has simple projection mapping and it uses a tiling texture, then yes, the final result will be a worse quality one, than a model fully unwrapped in 0-1 UV space, with its own set of textures and a material. It all depends on what Neon wants to achieve with this model.

[Destined 621]

He was talking about changing the glass/water color only, not several colors on one model! And with your approach a new material/skin is needed, too. I don't really get your point here. :|

My point was, if he wants to make a glassmaker's shop, he may want to have more coloured glass models. In that case, the colored keyword would help to bring in variety by using the same model with different colours. I agree that this only makes sense, if he uses more than one instance due to the need of new materials/skins. I missed that it was meant only for one model. Still, with no experience in retexturing, this might be a workaround even if it means more work.

[Obsttorte 1524]

No, I wouldn't want to have a uniform color for any material, as it looks too artificial. It also depends on how the model was unwrapped. If it has simple projection mapping and it uses a tiling texture, then yes, the final result will be a worse quality one, than a model fully unwrapped in 0-1 UV space, with its own set of textures and a material. It all depends on what Neon wants to achieve with this model.

You don't get an uniform color just by using the colored keyword. It works as a multiplicator, so it heavely depends on what you are using it on. For colored windows reflecting the state of the light in the room behind them it is actually more then suitable. In addition, you don't neccessarely have to use it on grayscale images only.

 

Also, why are you talking about models in general? Neon was quiet specifically asking for glass (ok, on a statue, but still) and water. Especially in the later case it sounded like all he wanted was to change the color hue from blue to green. IIRC I've used the colored method on the statues in the chapel in my Old Habits rebuild, and noone ever complained on it looking artificial.

[peter_spy 1603]

But it's not for windows in this case, this is a glass sculpture. And it's obvious that custom texture beats simple multiply by color operation, because you can have more natural looking objects with color variation. And I'm talking about the way models are made and textured because it has direct impact on their look and material / shading quality.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Judith

[Obsttorte 1524]

The window thing was an example

Two questions:

 

1. Is it possible to change the colour of a glass texture? I want a very specific colour for a glass sculpture

To me this doesn't sound like he is aiming for something as complex as you suggest. I don't say your approach is wrong, but it is more time-consuming and should be worth it. Whether that is the case in this scenario I can't tell as I haven't seen the mission, but if the statue is only an eyecatcher in a location the player may not even has to visit, investing hours in a modeling program to get the look right might be a bit like taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut. My suggestion takes less then five minutes to implement, and if neon is unhappy with the result, he can still bring in the big guns.

[NeonsStyle 586]

Hey,

I'm working on my level. Bikerdude tweaked the water on my level awhile back to get underwater fog and reflections working.  What I don't get is why he used two water_reflective patches on the surface, one just above the other? Could someone explain that? Also, It doesn't seem there's a water block there either, but in game there is. I just don't get  how he's done it. I want to change the water colour to thick_green_murk. I tried tweaking the entity list for it but it didn't work. I'd like to have the water look the way I envisioned it rather than the way Bikerdude wanted it. 

In another part of the level I have the water as it was originally where a brush was textured on the top surface with thick_murky_green water and all sides and bottom were set

to nodraw. The odd thing about this is in some cases when swimming, you fall out of the water to the bottom. lol Not sure why, and I think this is the wrong way to do water, and

have it reflect it's surroundings. [Why is this double spacing now???]

 

Thx Neon

[Dragofer 1430]

The double surface sounds similar to what I have for my ship showcase map, where one layer displays the reflection while the other layer blurs (lifted from Arcturus' castle & pond demo map for animated grass).

The easiest replacement would be to delete all traces of Bikerdude's water and then duplicate your own water from the other part of the map. If you can't see Bikerdude's water box, maybe you have the filter for nodraw or visportals enabled?

 

If you sometimes fall out of your water I'd have two possible explanations:

A ) the water brush doesn't reach all the way to the bottom

B ) your water entity consists of multiple irregular shaped brushes, i.e. triangles. This was problematic when I custom-fitted water brushes around my ships because I'd keep falling out of the water. I got it to work by, step 1: recreating the broken brushes from scratch (copy-paste does not suffice), step 2: giving each brush its own water entity.

[NeonsStyle 586]

Thanks Dragofer. Looking at that map, the bottom layer of the two patches is an atdm_puddle. If I load the grassdemo map into the editor, I can easily find it, but when I load my map, it's not there. Obviously there's data in the grassdemo folders that I need, but I don't know which?

What I find odd, and this is probably because of my lack of knowledge, is that the water entity seems to just be a patch rather than a nodraw brush; I have all filters off so nothing is hidden, but still there's nothing under these two patches. I'll make a video of the problems as soon as I can get the audio to record the mic properly. Having heaps of problems with it of late.  

Really don't like this forum, press enter and I get double spacing. grrr

You're probably right about the triangles. I'll look into it. Thanks

 

Neon

Edited July 11, 2019 by NeonsStyle

[Dragofer 1430]

That atdm_puddle entity is merely a patch-like model that fits to the shape of the lake and bears one of the 2 water textures. You can just as well use only patches, as I have done.

Regarding what's under the 2 surfaces, it might be that the water brush top is very close to these so you might not see it just by zooming the camera in. Maybe you could try shift-clicking + hiding one thing from the lake at a time in your orthoview until you find an entity that could be the water brush?

[NeonsStyle 586]

[Still looking for help on the shader part of this question]

 

Thanks Dragofer. That was the problem. I must've been inside the brush lol. Fixed the other problems too except for the reflections.

I noticed I can get nice reflections with the reflection3 material which reflects the surroundings, the lights and the light on the buildings, 

however it kills the fps. I was looking at the shader definition trying to see what was making the difference between the reflection2 and 3. I 

was wondering what is it in reflecton3 that is causing it to reflect the light shone on buildings, but not in reflection2? Is there some way

I can tweak water_reflection3 to show some of the light on buildings, but not as much as in reflection3?

This is reflection2: 

textures/water_source/water_reflective2
{

    qer_editorimage textures/glass/glass1
    translucent
    noshadows
    nonsolid
    description "use on a patch below water surface to create strong reflections"

    {
        blend    blend
        mirrorRenderMap 512    256
        translate    0.5, 0.5
        scale        0.5, 0.5

        program fresnel.vfp
        vertexParm    0    .5
        fragmentMap    0    _scratch
        alpha 0.6
    }

}

and this is reflection3

textures/water_source/water_reflective_3
{

    qer_editorimage textures/glass/glass1
    nonsolid
    discrete
    water
        description "use on a patch below water surface to create bright reflections"

    {
        blend    blend
        mirrorRenderMap    512    512
        translate    0.5, 0.5
        scale        0.5, 0.5
    }

}

Edited July 18, 2019 by NeonsStyle

[NeonsStyle 586]

Still need an answer to this problem. Is there a way to take reflections halfway between water_reflection2 and water_reflection3?