OMFG System Shock "remake"?!?

[revelator]

well the original link is here https://ulozto.net/file/Z9YNNhds/thief-2-source-code-leaked-c-thief-2-service-release-7z?fileName=thief-2-source-code-leaked-c-thief-2-service-release-7z

id rather not provide the source package myself to avoid any infringement, but this should be enough for those who dare

[chakkman]

2 hours ago, Kurshok said:

If a law is BS, it's a duty to ignore it, like the Iranians are doing against the Hijab law their terrorist dictator is trying to force on them. 

Comparing copyright laws to Islamic regimes is a bit of a stretch.

I'm also not quite sure about your point. These laws are there for a good reason.

Edited April 25, 2023 by chakkman

[Kurshok]

3 hours ago, chakkman said:

Comparing copyright laws to Islamic regimes is a bit of a stretch.

I'm also not quite sure about your point. These laws are there for a good reason.

Yes, but vaporware should be fair game. The original two games in the Thief series was built with Fan-mission creation in mind. So, The engine to further create with it should also continue to be open-source.

[revelator]

though i doubt any action would be taken for possessing the source code itself the game materials in the archive might be another can of worms . would take a good deal of work to get something usefull out of the source as it is anyway.

[revelator]

i have the source code for the game libraries as well though there are precompiled versions included in the above archive they were built using msvc 4.0 so for anyone wanting to port this to a more modern compiler would probably need these as well. I would have to upload it to someone here as the original link is long gone. Its about the size of a floppy so close to the max size that can be uploaded to the site. i split the archive into 3 and recompressed it.DarkEngine_2_libs.7z.002DarkEngine_2_libs.7z.001

[revelator]

and the last one -> DarkEngine_2_libs.7z.003

EDIT: the precompiled libraries also include versions compiled with msvc 5.0 and 6.0 still probably better to also have the sources for them in case of incompatibilities.

the system shock 2 source is also in there

[revelator]

well if i understood it correctly the library sources were the last official ones until newdark. not sure if you just yank them into the thief 2 source overwriting the ones there but this seems to be the case as the makefiles despite a few changes seem to be comparable to the ones in the thief 2 source and they lack a main project. For a first try it would probably be best to install msvc 6 in a virtual machine under xp or win2k and have a go at building it there. you would probably need to adjust some of the paths in the makefiles as they seem to point to specific drive letters and directories for building.

 

[chakkman]

11 hours ago, Kurshok said:

Yes, but vaporware should be fair game. 

It's only vaporware because you consider it vaporware. Who knows what the owner of the IP or the code is going to do with it, in future times. Most IP or copyright holder won't know what the future holds either.

Anyway, it's proprietray code, and not open source, so, that's that really.

Edited April 26, 2023 by chakkman

[revelator]

well the release was actually planned at some point it turns out by some tweets by stephen kick in 2018

https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=10305.0

my guess is that they needed to check and remove the copyrighted assets from it maybe even updating it to a newer toolset like it was done with the SS1 code.

 

[datiswous]

today is release day

[chakkman]

4 hours to go... I'll just vanish to work quickly, and when I'm back, it'll be out hopefully.

[jaxa]

https://www.gog.com/en/game/system_shock_goodie_pack
https://www.gog.com/giveaway/claim

No free game (I think) but you can grab this if you're a superfan.

[AluminumHaste]

So far I give it an 8/10 based on what I think they were going for.

[chakkman]

I'm a bit surprised about the amount of enemies. I don't remember that there were so many in the demo...

[Kurshok]

Maybe after they do System Shock as a series, they could remake the original Thief trilogy. Would be great to introduce REAL Thief to a new generation, and not the pale imitation of Thief 4, even if it was OK as a standalone game it was not up to the "Thief" reputation.

[revelator]

kinda surprised by the size less than 10gb thats quite a small footprint for a game of today even though it is a remake.

by comparison the final fantasy remake (which btw is far from finished) is several times bigger.

[AluminumHaste]

13 minutes ago, Kurshok said:

Maybe after they do System Shock as a series, they could remake the original Thief trilogy. Would be great to introduce REAL Thief to a new generation, and not the pale imitation of Thief 4, even if it was OK as a standalone game it was not up to the "Thief" reputation.

They would have to secure the rights to do so, good luck with that. Recently they fell under the umbrella of embracer group, so now back with Eidos.

[chakkman]

I also don't know if a Kickstarter for a Thief remake would be successful. If you ask me, I think it's a bad idea, as it wouldn't achieve as much funding as the System Shock remake.

I also think the original Thief's still stand the test of time in terms of gameplay. They're not obsolete or anything. The graphics have their charme as well.

Edited May 31, 2023 by chakkman

[chakkman]

20 minutes ago, revelator said:

kinda surprised by the size less than 10gb

3 GB download. It pays out when you don't have super HD textures and shiny visuals.

[Kurshok]

1 hour ago, AluminumHaste said:

They would have to secure the rights to do so, good luck with that. Recently they fell under the umbrella of embracer group, so now back with Eidos.

Would Eidos be willing to allow that? They otherwise would just be sitting on old IPs for good games without doing jack shit for them, like the Gex IP or Akuji the Heartless. 

[revelator]

but but i like shiny... hehe. but tbh it looks fine and monsters are quite in line with the original look.

but lets see i kinda foresee that someone out there is going to bash it because of the less than ultra realistic looks .

the visuals have nothing to do with the story but critics today have obviously unlearned how to read a book and let the imagination fly so i kinda pity them.

[kano]

If you want Thief to look amazing again, just play it on a giant OLED. I am doing that now. It's like how the designers would have wanted it to look; as though you are actually sneaking around in the *dark*, without the bright halo of a nightlight illuminating everything.

[chakkman]

1 hour ago, revelator said:

but but i like shiny... hehe. but tbh it looks fine and monsters are quite in line with the original look.

I think we all agree that good graphics are nice.  The thing is, though, that a significant amount of work and budget has to be done for the shiny visuals alone, the hardware has to work hard to display it, and the games are getting a massive size on the hard drive. And, IMO, shiny visuals is the wrong way to go. The gameplay and atmosphere (including, and, epecially, the game's soundtrack and audio) are, in my eyes, much more important that high definition graphics (my best example for that would be System Shock 2. I already get goose bumps when I just play the intro of that game.). It's a shame to see the development over time, with people only caring about graphics. Every second game is trashed because of bad graphics or performance these days. And games like Assassins Creed, whose gameplay is as shitty as it gets, and requires absolutely zero skills (and gives you zero achievement that you've done something special), are AAA games with tens of millions of sold copies. It also shows the Zeitgeist, and the shallow mentality of the target audience these days. It's really sad to see. But, I guess it's the fate of most things which get commercially interesting for companies. At some point, it's just doing professional work, for a safe investment return. Instead of the creative "Let the game designers go wild!" in the early days (thinking Deus Ex, Thief, System Shock etc.). Also happens with most musical genres. Over time, they get less and less interesting, more professional, sterile, less creative, more professional handicraft. 

Edited May 31, 2023 by chakkman

[ChronA]

3 hours ago, chakkman said:

The gameplay and atmosphere (including, and, epecially, the game's soundtrack and audio) are, in my eyes, much more important that high definition graphics

Nintendo is a pretty abysmal company in many respects, but this is one area where their priorities are better put together than their western competitors. They show that you can actually make ends meet by focusing on gameplay and atmosphere over graphics. In fact it's hard to dispute that that is the key to their success as a company. It seems like the only times they ever get into real difficulty is during the generations where they try to modernize their consoles. They've also survived for over 20 years in the console wars against two global mega corps. It's rather surprising none of the other AAAs are really tying to challenge them for that apparently quite reliable niche.

On the other hand maybe that is the point. Nintendo is the beloved king of gameplay focused, low-fi franchises. If an Activision or a Sony tried to muscle in on that territory and Nintendo decided to fight back there can be no doubt of who would win. Nintendo has years of developer experience, a positive track record, and a loyal customer base.

I do think there is more to it than that. If you have an XBox, Play Station, or gaming PC there is nothing stopping you from getting almost the full Nintendo experience via indie copycats, but no such luck for the Switch-only owner who wants to dip into AAAs. Anyone who wants the best of both is going to go for the high fidelity consoles, and once you have the graphics card you might as well use it, even if it costs extra. In that sense I suspect the AAAs are rational, but its still interesting that they don't hedge their blockbuster bets with a lot more reliable low fi offerings. You'd think it would pay off in the long term, even if only by nurturing talent to tap for their big projects (like how Hollywood still finances marginal projects despite the summer blockbusters being their bread and butter). 

[revelator]

true kinda makes you wonder about companies like commodore who by all means had something nice going but got shafted because of ridicoulous management. 3dfx sadly also among these, the world might have looked way different.

sure it is nice to see good gfx but personally im more into good stories, what fun is there in playing something if the game has no soul ? that is the reason why i love the half-life series the story is good the mechanics are fun and because of that i still play the original even though by todays standards it looks atrocious. mass effect has much of the same though it also had a few rough patches story wise its still a fun game.