Jump to content
The Dark Mod Forums

Steam Greenlight: TDM is ranked #1 atm.


Bikerdude
 Share

Recommended Posts

Have you seen the number of jobs that have appeared at GOG lately, Anderson..?

It's exploded big time of late.

If it didn't mean having to live in Poland and work with a company I dislike almost as much the pain of a nUbisoft project, I might've applied for a few of them - looks like they are full-time, too, not contracts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you seen the number of jobs that have appeared at GOG lately, Anderson..?

 

It's exploded big time of late.

 

If it didn't mean having to live in Poland and work with a company I dislike almost as much the pain of a nUbisoft project, I might've applied for a few of them - looks like they are full-time, too, not contracts.

 

Good for them!

 

Poland just like Romania is a very quickly growing economy. New European China.

The Romanian division of Ubisoft was also responsible for the best Silent Hunter games - 3 and 4. Kind of a niche but all good games.

 

​Just goes to show you don't need to immigrate to make a living honestly.

  • Like 1

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

badge?user=andarson

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dislike GOG for killing the abandonware scene and profiting from exploitation of dusty old crap and donations, like a cat charity shop that pockets all the cash to look after "the cats" which are their own cats and give a can of premium tuna for their mates every now and then.

 

They even use the same exact same cracked .exe for Covert Action that we sorted fkn years ago.

 

The only good thing about GOG is it saves sourcing a dodgy crack for the new titles, imho.

 

No big loss - I forgot about the F2P thing.

 

But you guys are in a bit of a bind with this one, with steamworks and trying to get onto a major platform, if you want to keep it as a free game... I can't think of a solution that doesn't involve you spending money to not break even that doesn't involve donations from, eg, kickstarter for incorporation and licensing, etc.

 

Plus, you're gonna be in the same category as Clicker Heroes... and that makes it a tough decision on which F2P game I want to download...

 

Have you tried itch.io or Humble Store?

 

They get press fairly often in the rags.

 

I can't agree with this, IMO because of GOG many new gamers can play old games without the need for crazy fixes on their part or the need to be computer savy, because of GOG the original developers (or publishers) can still make some money on their old games, GOG helped developers knew how comercial viable their old IP's or genres of games still were, IMO that also helped fuel the kickstarter wave of remakes of old games like System Shock and others, because of GOG DRM is not thought to be has necessary has it once was and showed PC gamers weren't all just "pirates", because of GOG old IP's are returning, if not they would be pretty much dead, only to be experienced by a small nich of hardcore fans, many games even ones very old were never abandonware, in the sense that anyone could take the IP and do with it what they wanted, the IP owners add all rights over them and so no one wanted to mess with that mine field, that caused many games IP's to just be dead period and fans were losing hope of ever seeing a follow up to them, now they have new hope.

And lastly GOG never killed the mod scene, anyone can still make mods for their old favorite games and know they will probably be experienced by new people.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And lastly GOG never killed the mod scene, anyone can still make mods for their old favorite games and know they will probably be experienced by new people.

Also is it really true that GOG killed the Abandonware scene? I mean this was kind of illegal from the beginning, but nobody cared! And when I just searched for Abandonware in Google, dozends of working sites popped up...

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No - I simply use GOG as a figurehead / scapegoat, and disagree with vultures picking at the flesh of the living to fill their bellies.

 

Unfortunately, not the scene in which I was operating at the time - we even started a magazine - I ran a competition wit Markus Perrson (creator of Minecraft) back when it was in the very early stages for some free keys and we had a real community that engaged with the scene and appreciated the work spent in order for people to find help with eg, DosBox and VM and getting their old favourites (for which they had probably paid twice already, if like me) to work on their new machines...

The community now is an old-guard that refuse to leave their positions.

I am banned for my views (as if it stopped me accessing the place) and all games that are sold on GOG, instead of "download" have "buy on GOG" instead.

It was frustrating at the effort spent, voluntarily, for another's profit.
I guess I come from an era where people were keen to learn and put forth effort, had to understand the machine worked to use it, in order to attain the things they desired.

Invest more for more, not invest less for more as appears.

It is my opinion only.

Anyway, as I said - the DRM-free policy means that I can play any game I want for free with a simple, trustworthy download from a reliable source or opening a 2tb collection drive. So...

 

This is a gross diversion from the topic of the thread - Perhaps it is best to return to the TDM on Greenlight thing..?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is there an estimate on when we hit storefront?

I've talked to like five people who are basically waiting on as much before they'll download.

Edited by V-Man339

I like to record difficult stealth games, and right now you wonderful people are the only ones delivering on that front.

Click here for the crappy channel where that happens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is there an estimate on when we hit storefront?

 

 

No, if and when it happens there'll be an announcement.

 

EDIT: Also, tell your 5 "friends" people to stop being morons, download the game and add it as a non-steam game so they can launch it via steam.

I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

No, if and when it happens there'll be an announcement.

 

EDIT: Also, tell your 5 "friends" people to stop being morons, download the game and add it as a non-steam game so they can launch it via steam.

I do, it doesn't work.

 

 

 

Why? I'm genuinely curious? There are issues to figure out, it could be awhile, and the game is easily available without the use of Steam.

Because they're morons.

You can see in every video I make at the very start the Steam overlay pops up, I show them it is very possible and they ignore it.

 

To be fair, one of those friends is Australian so it ends up being a legitimate server issue, not an intelligence based on.

I like to record difficult stealth games, and right now you wonderful people are the only ones delivering on that front.

Click here for the crappy channel where that happens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Why? I'm genuinely curious? There are issues to figure out, it could be awhile, and the game is easily available without the use of Steam.

 

Because they probably reddit on reddit that gabe is god and the jihad is real, bro, 4chan4life - it's a trap!

 

--

 

Steam overlay works fine with TDM added as non-steam game (you get steam and TDM screenshots with f12...) - try to sell it on that. EVEN THOUGH IT'S FREE AND IDK WHY YOU'D TURN DOWN A FREE GAME BECAUSE NO-STEAM?

 

--

You can even broadcast TDM over Steam, but no-one will see it if searching "the Dark Mod"... Unless you have a completely public profile and a trillion friends, as curator groups cannot broadcast to spread the gameplay unless ppl look at the group curator and see they're playing something and join the broadcast (usually up to 30 at once for a game on sale or newer / greenlight / early release game), to let ppl look at it.

 

(I'm banned twice from twitch for doing adobe tutorials and once for streaming my own stream from another site, so FU twitch, hitbox is for Polish LoL and is getting too laggy for testing - skype/steambroadcast is best for sharing that.)

 

However, Shadowplay does not work in either instance, steam or no... so no broadcast there or "instant replay" or easy video capture.

At least for me... I can't figure out why it doesn't work.

 

Which is a real pain because FRAPS is the only alternative and the instant reply would be great to capture that one speed run or that moment of awesomeness where you 360 mid-air black-jacked that guy while stealing the crown and shot out the lights in time to sneak away with 0 score and it was basically the coolest thing ever but you weren't recording on FRAPS cos you forgot to press a button...

 

// gabe is god, I reddit on reddit so it must be true, I don't pirate games because it's wrong - I'd rather throw $50 at a big studio for a game that I will complain about on reddit and leave a poor review. I don't trust free meals and I'm scared barbarians from other places. Also, I like to watch porn while I play and unless I have an overlay with web and chat - I have no porn or social life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shadowplay has always been finicky for me, I've had really good success with OBS Studio.

FRAPS works but it's resource heavy. I haven't tried the Steam Broadcast because I don't have fast internet.

I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The latest GeForce experience, dated 05/05/17 and associated drivers appear to have ironed out any creases - it works very well for me now - changing the cache directory to be an SSD that does not contain the game has improved performance impact to the point where idk it's even running, bar the icon.

FRAPS has for... a decade? always proved to be very difficult and time consuming to work with, due to the naming and number of files it can produce, as things such as DSR and resolution of software and game increases (even filling up a 2tb hdd on long play).

I will try OBS for long-play record and go back to on-screen timer and notation of this for event, as this was what I would use for streaming - however... Not streaming for public, as I have said, screenshare or steam-broadcast is a good option.

Thank you for the advice.

 

// my concern is how to broadcast the game to a curator group and get them to watch over steam, rather than rely on posting video links in announcements that few people read.

Edited by teh_saccade
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's kinda discussing how to use Steam to provide more coverage for TDM using different methods on Steam - i guess it warrants its own thread but - idk if it's worth pursuing further, considering...

 

All very well being number one on greenlight but if the game can't get on Steam due to all the incorporation and costs and stuff, and this was an opportunity to expand the game's player-base or re-garner interest - missing out on the opportunity / zeitgeist might be a shame.

I got nothing further to add, was merely responding...

No-one else seems to be coming up with ways to further TDM on steam while "it's a thing" and it's not gonna "a thing" forever...

I'll go sit over in the quiet corner for a bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All very well being number one on greenlight but if the game can't get on Steam due to all the incorporation and costs and stuff, and this was an opportunity to expand the game's player-base or re-garner interest - missing out on the opportunity / zeitgeist might be a shame.

Is this already a fact or only a speculation of your part regarding TDM?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm unsure as to what you are asking, wesp..?




The facts, as I understand are:

 

  • TDM is #1 on greenlight (and many people are interested)
  • TDM can be run with the steam overlay
  • TDM has a steam group
  • TDM likely has many players who also use steam / broadcasting (I am one, at least - I only use steam broadcasting now, or other private screenshare)

It's far easier for commercial games.

 

Steam does not want to become entangled in the legality of GPL and Creative Commons.

Most projects that end-up on Steam aren't; made by a huge contributor community, code licensed as GPLv3 AND Creative Commons licensed as BY-NC-SA.

They have tasked us with creating a formal legal organization to carry all the liability of violating those license types.

 

  • TDM faces significant red-tape to get into the steam store, that will no doubt prove costly in effort, time and likely - some dosh.
  • Therefore, to be shifted from greenshite to steam store requires TDM to put in a bunch of time and effort (maybe money) in order for people to have access to a free game.

I would not say that is speculation, considering the things nhobr1more has stated in the above quote.

If it proves to be "too much hassle" / "above paygrade" to do all this stuff in order to get TDM from greeshite (which closes soon, this summer I've read, to stop the deluge of shovelware - replaced by the £3000 a shot, steam direct) - that means that there is a limited window of opportunity for TDM's #1 status on greenshite to be expoloited to best use.

I've forgotten my point... hold on...

 

Oh yeah - it was, "how would it be possible to use this small window of opportunity to expand interest in TDM other than people clicking the button as they trawl the shovelware on greenshite?".

We're seeing stats of the steam interest, but:

  • Have the downloads of the game increased?
  • Have download of the game missions increased, to reflect active player-base?
  • Are people retaining interest in the game, further to pressing the "yes" button, going to find it online themselves and actually playing TDM..?

There are no statistics on this, so it is impossible to speculate.

My statement that you did quote merely expressed that - right now - TDM is top of the shovelware pile and that it would be a shame to miss out on being king of the hill for TDM for the duration.

--

  • As a steam curator, I can post about the game in groups. Anyone who is a member of the group or a friend can see me playing the [non-steam] game and watch it (a few have asked in the past years, wtf is the dark mod?)
  • I can social-media / blog about it and link to the steam page and TDM download pages.
  • It might be possible to write a note about the awkward situation described above (wrt steam's attitude toward, "legality of GPL and Creative Commons, made by a huge contributor community, code licensed as GPLv3 AND Creative Commons licensed as BY-NC-SA and how Steam have tasked TDM with creating a formal legal organization to carry all the liability of violating those license types.

 

This is a rather unique situation...

It is noteworthy and is the kind of thing that might provide debate and article if the issue were highlighted to specific people, proactively (ie, not just waiting for PC Gamer to check back in on their mod of the year, but writing to them and saying, "hey, fellas, check out this bullshit").

Result might be - PC gamer (and a lot of reddit) start discussing steam and GPL/CC and how this might affect games devs in the future, using TDM as an example.

So - free advertising and possible to raise banners/moolah (eg, through kickstarter) to get TDM onto steam.

If it fails and steam won't accept or TDM can't be arsed with incorporation of formal legal organisation (which sounds like a fucking impossible task since it would have to cover ALL GPL and CC licensed products for software/games, not only TDM - and that's totally contrary to the whole idea of the thing...) - at least TDM got another 15 minutes of fame beyond being king of the hill on Mount Greenshite-Shovelware.


--

Does that make sense..?

It's very simple - it's exploiting the current position in order to highlight a situation that has the potential to spread the TLA, "TDM" all over the gaming news because GABE IS GOD, by writing a few emails to contacts in the press about the situation about the herculean task set by valve to get TDM onto steam and what this means for any future game of ilk.

At the very least - the headline might read, "PUBLIC WARNING: DON'T MAKE YOUR GAME PUBLIC DOMAIN GPL/CC IF YOU EVER WANT IT TO BE ON STEAM, BECAUSE TDM DID AND LOOK AT THIS:"

It's not something that's probably considered by people entering into these kinds of projects (evidently, not in TDM's case) and it would be of interest to the gaming and [indie] games development scene in general.

This is what might garner some interest in TDM through the fact that - despite it being #1 on greenshite - steam are saying, "make a pig fly and you're in".

Should I draw a picture..?

or perhaps I am missing something totally obvious about open licenses and creative commons licenses and software that means that it WOULD be possible to change it so that a single game might get on steam.

Perhaps it'd be better to change the licensing and simply charge a nominal fee for the people who wish to REWARD to creators of this content by paying for it on steam (steam want their 33%).

Money talks, GPL.CC / BS walks.


--

Further reading:

https://opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/1717/why-is-cc-by-sa-discouraged-for-code

 

Unlike software-specific licenses, CC licenses do not contain specific terms about the distribution of source code, which is often important to ensuring the free reuse and modifiability of software. Many software licenses also address patent rights, which are important to software but may not be applicable to other copyrightable works. Additionally, our licenses are currently not compatible with the major software licenses, so it would be difficult to integrate CC-licensed work with other free software. Existing software licenses were designed specifically for use with software and offer a similar set of rights to the Creative Commons licenses.

Our licenses are currently not compatible with the GPL, though the CC0 Public Domain Dedication is GPL-compatible and acceptable for software. For details, see the relevant CC0 FAQ entry. We are looking into compatibility of BY-SA with GPL in the future

 

https://creativecommons.org/faq/#Can_I_use_a_Creative_Commons_license_for_software.3F

 

 

--

 

Personally, I don't think the game will get onto steam because on cursory examination it appears impossible to conform to the regulations and / or do what they ask.
I do think that this is a subject of interest and that the best use of the #1 spot on greenshite might be to capitalise on the fact that - even though it's #1 on greenshite, it might never get on steam (by writing to kotaku, rock paper shotgun, pc gamer, etc... and saying, WTF GUYS?!".



(spoilered so Bikerdude doesn't have to)

Edited by teh_saccade
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I have been snooping around the TDM server again... I do it to help, since this appears to have been overlooked in the past several years.


 

 

Here is a graph that displays pagelandings on tehdarkmod.com - from this it is possible to extrapoloate some external data relevant to the greenlight statistics.

I would appear that the graph might corrolate with the appearance of TDM and greenshite, so it might provide evidence to say that TDM at #1 spot on the steam platform has had a positive impact on the game's profile, according to analytics such as this.

 

Shortly before the latest peak was the time I suggested involving press, to further interest in TDM.

 

These data might be used to prove the point that the viral interest in TDM, despite steamwork's hoop-jumping, has had a beneficial effect.
For the team, I hope that this is encouraging.

 

 


Also, where trust rating for the site was rather low due to some glaring holes that would have been very easy to exploit - it is slowly increasing since a proxy-chained, masked a syn-flood in Aug 2016, hidden within a large, global spam-bot/zombie download of the largest assets (iirc a css file for main page), so as to appear as a false bot-driven DOS attack by flooding the server with requests for the largest file to download while goofing the server into a loop that would require manual intervention to fix.

 

 


The whole site was consolodated on a single server, so this simple thing rendered the entire domain inoperable until someone pushed the reset button - simple attack, simple solution.
No intrusion or malicious activity. Merely penetration test to ascertain the security and safety of TDM's public face.

 

 

 

The site is becoming more secure as traffic increases.

This is a good thing.

 

It stops people from attempting to take TDM down (there are many malicious/script-kiddies on steam), to ensure the ship isn't leaking or - in the case of random internet users - simply because they can or want.
This is important as, the more traffic there is the more likely you're gonna get a bad driver who causes an accident cos they're drunk...

Please don't sue me, Demagogue.

 

 



Currently am testing to discover if it is possible to include a payload in game assets that might be opened inside/outside of the game (eg, jpg stegosploit, which is rather unknown delivery system and has modern safeguards against - it has been possible in some contemporary software). It was possible in Doom and Wolfenstein 3D back then (and still is, esp since these games are available to play online in java boxes), with minimal/zero trace.

Will do this without intrusion (ie, local).
Due to compression and artefacting of the jpgs, I am unsure if it would be possible to deliver any malicious payload via the game to unsuspecting parties.

Would consider safe until proven otherwise.

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would appear that the graph might corrolate with the appearance of TDM and greenshite, so it might provide evidence to say that TDM at #1 spot on the steam platform has had a positive impact on the game's profile, according to analytics such as this.

 

 

No doubt it did, although it's interesting that the graph seems to take off in January and the Greenlight and 2.05 release wasn't until February.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good spot, Springheel - the update from TDM 2.03 to 2.04 was released around 4th Jan 2017..?

Therefore, it might be considered that the intial spike in Jan. was due to the pagelandings of those who were updating via the domain, rather than moddb (2-300 downloads only) or remembering the TDM update (that failed for me, due to being outdated /CRC errors/ etc...).

I could find no evidence of increased mention of TDM (although, strangely, 2.61% of traffic to the site came from the search-term, "nhobr1more"), so the update at the start of the year remains the only explanation I can think of for the aberrant spike in activity for that period.

 

// to double alexa ranking in such a short time is no minor feat - a small advert for a stealth-related game (eg, hitman, released Jan17) on the front page would've netted enough to pay for TDM hosting for a fair while.

Edited by teh_saccade
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


  • Recent Status Updates

    • duzenko

      Please, can we finally group the missions by year in the game menu?
      · 6 replies
    • duzenko

      I vaguely recall someone recently complained about two-sided materials (curtains?) not getting lighting from both sides
      I just found a piece of code that's supposed to do just that
      Where was that discussed? (@nbohr1more?)
      · 9 replies
    • Xolvix

      I still play classic Doom (albeit with user-made mods and maps rather than the original campaign) on a regular basis. A game from the early 90's which has still got a healthy following in 2022. Pretty amazing.
      · 3 replies
    • Nort

      I'm beginning to understand why people who aren't into social clubbing "don't last long" on this project, and why it's so full of holes. When moderators are siding with bullies, by closing down threads that they derail, then I start to wonder if I should support the platform to begin with.
      I'm sure that the core development is solid, but when you're constantly tone policed and bullied, and moderators are playing into it too, then the project will just drive away talent, and replace it with socialites instead. ...and without talent, you only end up with a small skeleton crew trying to do everything themselves.
      ...so Dragofer and Airship Ballet, and all you other socialites, you win. From now on I'll just keep to myself. You'll never be able to do my work, but at least you'll be happy together, and that's what matters to you.
       
      Update
      Actually, I have to revise my statement:
      I actually messaged greebo - the top dog, I gather - about nbohr1more's outburst of insanity below, and since I haven't even heard back from him, I just have to assume that there's not a single core programmer here, who's not backing nbohr's threats. ...and that's bad.
      ...so if you're a newbie reading this, or an honest soul like ZergRush, then just slowly back out of these forums, run, and don't look back. This is nothing more than a cult posing as a game development project, using Thief and IDTech4 to sucker hopefuls in, to do work for them, while trying to cajole them into something going on behind the scenes, which apparently - according to nbohr - is something that should be hidden from the state. These people aren't programmers - they don't even understand things like how to fix the simplest bugs. All they have, is an engine, and an IP, and some sort of fascist social cult. There was some other project I saw being made in the Unreal Engine. Try joining that project. ...or start a project of your own. Anything but this asylum.
      Hopefully that was "divisive" enough for a final post, because at this point I really want people to leave this place. This project is, on a management level, just awful garbage, run by garbage people, apparently from the top down, and I'm just glad that they have a garbage place to stay, together, and hopefully forever.
      Nort
      · 16 replies
    • The Black Arrow  »  Araneidae

      A spidey! I love spideys 🕷️
      · 0 replies
×
×
  • Create New...