Thief 5 Wishlist

[Kurshok]

Sorry.

[teh_saccade]

Please allow me to explain, so that there is some understanding of why decisions such as these are made by large publishers (ie, corporate machines for making money and consumer products).

 

 

 

The parent company [square Enix, the publisher] made record profits off release of mediocre long-standing franchise games from a subsidary company [Eidos, the developer], who own Thief, Hitman, Tomb Raider and Deus Ex, through owning smaller studios such as IO interactive [who actually make the games, such as Hitman].

Thi4f and DX:MD were not well received - these were sacred cows that had been given plastic surgery and fed GM crops and given experimental steroids and all kinds of things to try and keep them alive.

They milked the sacred, aging cows before sending them to slaughter.

This is how the corporate game-world now works.

It is sad to watch and is why it is preferable to work with innovative and independent developers - ensuring their strings are not pulled by people like this.

 

--

 

But this trend also extends to the indie dev world...

Here are some examples from the past few years that spring to mind:

Jason Rohrer said to me when we were discussing how The Castle Doctrine's in-game economy would eventually cause it to collapse to the point where there would only be 2 players - he said, "I don't care, I have made a lot of money for having fun making a game".

• In it for the lulz and the money, screw the player - Fair enough.

Martino from Planetbase, a team of 2 people plus 2 employees, kickstarted (paid for before finishing work) made I think £3 million after Steam's cut - for a game that wasn't finished.
He then went travelling the world and has a nice flat. While the fans fix the game.

I had to phone text the guy to get a response to a simple question regarding XML that I had asked in 2 different languages in several emails and messages over several months.
The answer was simply, "no, you can't do that because we didn't think about doing that when making the game [but maybe in Planetbase 2]".

• In it for the love of the game, unexpected success means can spend more on love of the game, players love so much they do the work for us - Fair enough.

The game Clandestine's studio, Logic Artists, also Danish - I offered them free QA because Clandestine had potential to be amazing and it deserved the time and effort to fix all the problems.
However, they ignored me (I could never fix the toggle aim...) and they made enough money from kickstarter (paid before finishing the work... again...) and Steam sales to work on the sequel to the game they wanted to make (Conquistadors 2).

• In it because they wanted to finish a game set in the 90's that was probably started in the 90s' (certainly looks like it's from the 90s'), so they could afford to make the game they wanted - Fair enough.

No Man's Sky. Hated by many people on release, slammed by the press. Sean Murray and Hello games refuse to give up on their baby, despite that it has its college paid for and a trust fund that will last until someone spends it all on crack and hookers.

• In it because they love their game and want it to be the best it can be and prove all those who hated us wrong, instead of giving up and saying, "screw you guys, I'm going home" - Commendable Ki.

---

 

In this Thief 5 instance:

 

In my opinon, the decision [by Square Enix] was a good one to have taken for these games and for the pockets of the parent company - they have gone "we're not going to be like the Simpsons" after reaching peak financial success, yet continue to churn out more and more ever degrading product compared to the "good old days". *coughcough* nUbisoft *cough*.

So, they decide, Deus Ex: MD didn't go so well, so forget that franchise (but keep the IP rights) - Crystal Dynamics are retasked to massive profit potential Marvel Universe games - huge and established franchise, perhaps more Tomb-Raider (which already has peaked and is still earning).

Hitman can go as well, the franchise is going downhill and the payment structure is a mess - Sell the studio and IP to someone else... IO interactive, ty now gtfo - the prospect of this causing a £33,000,000 [33mil] loss to outside investors in Hitman games / IO / Eidos (poor rich ppl...).

Plus, there was the big legal battle to get Hitman: Contracts back onto sale, because IO Interactive (Danish studio owned by Eidos, owned by Square Enix) forgot to license a heavy metal song on the Hell's Angels level of the game, and the Danish band were left holding the cards... Now resolved - the game is on sale again. Took a loss to get it there... and new Hitman wasn't received well...

But no big deal because corporate giant Square Enix just net £1,700,000,000 [1.7bil], which is 1/5th higher than last year - which means they can afford the Marvel Universe games and focus on mobile gaming and micro-transactions and a franchise that will earn them even more money, using methods they have learned from these different games and - Final Fantasy is basically going on forever and earning a lot of MMOney so - hey...

That is some pretty savvy business move, cut the "dead wood" and regrow where the new money flows - Marvel is massive (they already have Batman, which is basically tomb raider but staring at a guy's butt instead of Lara's).

 

• In it for the money, in the interest of the people who already have the money. They will continue to make more and more money because that is their objective. Not to make awesome games. Fair enough.

 

--

At least, they won't be responsible for destroying Hitman, Deus Ex, Thief or Tomb raider which are all basically now the same game (reskin DX and you have thief, reskin the new agent 47 and you have lara/altair/ezio/wtf), so this is something.

In effect - the fact that such smaller studios [therefore titles] are "being dropped" means that there is opportunity for other "parents" to pick up these orphaned studios and IP's [game franchises] and allow them to continue under new direction, away from Square Enix' boxed-in approach to making games for consoles and mobile (where the money is).

Or simply leave them on the shelf, gathering [GoG] gold dust.

--

 

This is a good thing.

 

It leaves opportune gaps in the market that can be filled with new ideas from new people.

I imagine the people who "leaked" the buzz to get hype for a movie were either in collaboration or served a cease and desist.

Either way, the Thief franchise has received attention over the past few, which means sales:
They've sold, in the past few:

 

~ 10,000 copies of Thief Gold on Steam alone.

~ 3,000 copies of T2 on Steam alone.

~ 0 copies of T3 (lol?)

~ 8-10,000 copies of Thief 4 on Steam

 

since the "leak" and all this buzz about "Thief 5".

 

They will continue to boil the sacred cow's carcass to sell as glue and dog food, forever and ever, amen.

 

// If it wasn't for corporate decisions such as these, there would not be games such as TDM (although, in the past years, money has learned to recognise the importance of holding onto its ancient source).

Edited May 17, 2017 by teh_saccade

[CarltonTroisi]

Sorry, what I meant to say was:

 

"sed octrocore TDM fuckng cunt thread wishing dat T5 suks cok suka"

 

The higher in number of the franchise, the more vehement the response that comes - at an IQ similar to the number of said franchise.

 

I think it might be fair (if still a bit smug) to direct that statement toward other users.

 

My comment, though... "I want dat Thie5".. was intentional satire/parody. Honestly.

Edited May 17, 2017 by CarltonTroisi

[Springheel]

I think the most toxic threads we ever had in the public forums in the 12 years the mod has existed was surrounding Thief4.

 

the cocksucker has the gall to be a smug prick about no sequel, despite fans of the series excitement. Fucking cunt.

 

 

You might want to tone it down a bit. We try to avoid direct namecalling around here, even if it's directed at someone not part of the forum.

 

It was the editor of the article that decided to label the comment "mocking". The tweet itself could have been bemused, self-depreciating, smug, or anything in between.

[teh_saccade]

The tweet itself could have been bemused, self-depreciating, smug, or anything in between.

 

I read that tweet as "like we got time for this?!"

 

Guy realised the overstep and said Sorry, Springheel - no harm, no foul?

 

--

 

Incidentally, there are 110 alternatives to the word, "See You Next Tuesday".

 

Expanding a vocabulary in any language is like infusing your soul with creative expression.

When it comes to insults - Jebo ti pas mater, prokleta prasica, 63 75 6e 74 - the best are the ones that aren't understood until you've had the time to run away, or aren't understood at all...

 

 

--

 

 

So was the statement you did quote, Carlton, dw

No offence intended. I have a terrible sense of humour and a poor manner of dealing with people at times - my apologies if I made you feel uncomfortable.

 

I jus wnted 2 say dat shyt b4 NE1 els dided it & got +rep kthxbai, and realign the discourse before it degenerated further, honest, guv (and it worked, so ).

 

I think it might be fair (if still a bit smug) to direct that statement toward other users.

 

My comment, though... "I want dat Thie5".. was intentional satire/parody. Honestly.

Edited May 17, 2017 by teh_saccade

[NeonsStyle]

No bloody floating markers saying GO HERE YOU IDIOT. Give us a compass and a map and let us Jump. Stick to the basics

of Thief, Don't turn him into a hero, he's a thief. Most of all, Stick to the universe!

[AluminumHaste]

No bloody floating markers saying GO HERE YOU IDIOT. Give us a compass and a map and let us Jump. Stick to the basics

of Thief, Don't turn him into a hero, he's a thief. Most of all, Stick to the universe!

 

Yeah pretty much this, just because the mechanics have been around since the 90s, that doesn't mean they need updating.

They work, and work well.

Basically I wouldn't mind a fusion of Thief 1/2/3 and TDM, but with a new story. Nothing wrong with more Garrett as actual Garrett lol.

[NeonsStyle]

Yeh I'd like more actual Garret (the real one), and some more stories involving the Keepers. I always liked the Keepers. A little

over the top, but harmless, but those damn Mechanists were just nuts lol