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Fan Mission: Volta II - Cauldron of the Gods by Kingsal (11/30/17) V2.2


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@AluminumHasteYeah I suspected this might be the case. I never trusted those force entities. I remember seeing them behave differently with uncapped FPS on but I totally forgot I used them in cauldron. :( 

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  • 5 months later...
On 1/24/2018 at 7:05 AM, GEPGUN said:

Does anyone else find the

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to be blackjack-proof when they are squatting down? I ended up quicksaving right before one was squatting down to pick up a weapon, but every blackjack attempt failed. Either it would hit his rear and not KO, or the blackjack would whiff right through him. The only way to get him was to wait until he would stand back up.

Re-playing this, I had a lot of issues with blackjacking them. Not just when they're squatting down, also when they're standing or walking. 9 out of 10 blackjack attempts failed. 

But then, blackjacking is the #1 issue of The Dark Mod in general anyway. It just doesn't work well. Seemed to be even (quite a bit) worse with the apebeasts though.

Edited by chakkman
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50 minutes ago, chakkman said:

But then, blackjacking is the #1 issue of The Dark Mod in general anyway. It just doesn't work well. Seemed to be even (quite a bit) worse with the apebeasts though.

For you, 90 percent of players have no issue.

I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.


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42 minutes ago, AluminumHaste said:

For you, 90 percent of players have no issue.

I didn't know that you made a research study on the subject. ;) 

But, jokes aside, I think we're running in circles, aren't we? I could as well argue that, just because you have no problem with it, or act like there isn't a problem, doesn't mean that the majority of peple don't have a problem with it.

Blackjacking in TDM always worked very different to blackjacking in the original Thief's. I never had an issue with blackjacking in the original Thief's, but, since I play TDM (which is probably 13 to 14 years now), I had a lot of issues blackjacking in it. That's all I can say. Maybe my blackjacking skills magically vanish whenever I boot TDM. IDK.

Or maybe blackjacking just plain sucks in TDM.

Edited by chakkman
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Do you realize how little helpful you are?

Especially when I quote someone who had the same issues in this mission with a specific type of enemy. But, suuuure, it's just a skill issue. That's why this topic came up so often over the years.

Let's just end this now though. You will never be able to accept that there is an issue with the blackjack system. It's fine, and it doesn't matter. What matters if that people do have issues with the blackjacking.

And, if you allow me one last personal thing: It was absolutely fkn annoying to have to quicksave and quickload every time I missed a blackjack again in this mission. The mission is one of my absolute favorites, but, the blackjacking really sucked the life out of me in this one. It's absolutely frustrating to again and again have to re-load, and it's the one thing which seriously frustrates me about this mod in general. Everything else is on par, or even an improvement over the original games, except the blackjacking. It's beyond horrible. Even with the blackjack indicator, which doesn't work reliable either, by the way. The indicator didn't indicate that I was in a position for a successful K.O. even if the K.O. was successful. I don't know WTH is wrong with the system. Much too sensitive, much too dependant on the range and point of impact. It doesn't make sense in a game where you can't judge the distance as if you would in virtual reality, or in real life. It should be much more forgiving, and less sensitive.

Edited by chakkman
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I was going to say I think their crouch pose might be moving the invisible KO volume too high. I can have a look at this.

@chakkmanI agree the blackjacking in TDM can be fickle. Do you have the latest 2.11 updates with the new assisted black jack system? I've been using it since 2.11 and personally, I love it. 

EDIT: Alright so... I think because cauldron was made before that system- there might be some funkiness going on here because I have a modified version of the blackjack. 
@chakkman If its not too much trouble, can you try unpacking cauldron_v2_2.pk4. Be sure to "Extract here" so it puts all the files right where the pk4 is. 

Go to cauldron_v2_2/def/tdm_weapon_blackjack.def and delete that file

See if this helps. 

Edited by kingsal
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Thanks for taking your time. I just tried it (to be sure, I don't have to delete the cauldron_v2_2.pk4 after unpacking, right?), and, it doesn't seem to make a difference.

Did a little video to illustrate my problems: https://drive.google.com/file/d/109NEYxgZTlrqD2rt65PY4jQ0KUhpC-PT/view?usp=sharing

On the first attempt, I might have been too far away. On the second attempt, the beast might have been in a state of awareness due to me running towards it (even though that worked in the past with guards in other missions). The third attempt felt perfect, no idea why I didn't succeed there.  Same on the fourth attempt. The fifth attempt was successful, and I have no idea why, as the former two attempts seem to have been almost exactly the same.

I have the A.I. hearing to "forgiving", by the way, as that works better for me, as the A.I. can't hear your footsteps from a mile away. It's still much more sensitive than in the original Thief's (talking about sensitivity...), but, it works alright for me.

That video is pretty much exactly what I experienced throughout the whole mission with the beasts. Every time I tried a K.O., i had to try several times to succeed. As I mentioned above, blackjacking is a general issue in the mod, but, it seems to be even more of an issue with this type of enemy.

Oh, and the guy wearing the mask (the king? :)) was the hardest to knockout. I needed at least 10 or 12 attempts to knock him out. 

Edit: Sorry, just fixed the permission for the video.

Edited by chakkman
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@chakkmanAhh right so I see what's happening there. The beast is playing an "eating" animation which is making his head very hard to hit :( Probably similar to their crouch and maybe other animations such as the walk. It could also be that their head is just too far forward in a lot of cases. Sucks because thats a lot of animations to fix if it is indeed the problem. 

Thanks for finding this. I don't know if I'll have time to fix that animations soon, but as your playing just be aware when their head looks up and down, it will also change the hit detection volume. 

I can't tell from the video but is your blackjack raising up to signal a successful hit? It should shift up slightly if you are about to get a KO.  That was integrated in 2.11


Edited by kingsal
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3 minutes ago, kingsal said:

I can't tell from the video but is your blackjack raising up to signal a successful hit? It should shift up slightly if you are about to get a KO.  That was integrated in 2.11

I was wondering as well. It doesn't look like it, but, it's hard to tell, because I used the lean forward feature shortly before I hit with the blackjack. I could have sworn that it sometimes didn't indicate it when I played the mission. But, I'm not 100% sure now.

Again, thanks for taking your time. I just thought I'd mention it, because, over the whole mission, it seemed to me that the beasts are harder to knock out than human A.I.'s.

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2 hours ago, chakkman said:

Did a little video to illustrate my problems

It looked to me like you hit the beast's back or shoulders every time (even the one that worked). Is it possible that this could be a hardware based problem? Maybe your system is giving you particularly high latency, making it impossible to do fine, last millisecond adjustments to your aim. That would fit with the evidence in the video, since in several attempts the target started to move before you were in position but you still swung the blackjack. It would also explain why the blackjack indicator would be less helpful to you.

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Btw. I see this fm still uses it's own secret system, instead of the build-in one from tdm 2.10+ ?

//code that keeps track of secrets. From goldwell

	float secrets_count;
	void trigger_secrets()
			secrets_count = secrets_count + 1;
			//Added a total number kept in $Secret_Message
			string secret_num = "You have found " + (secrets_count - 1) + " of " + ($Secret_Message.getFloatKey("secrets_total")) + " secrets !"; 
			//Play secret sound kept in $Secret_Message
			string secret_sound = $Secret_Message.getKey("snd_secret");
			$player1.startSoundShader(secret_sound, SND_CHANNEL_VOICE ); //play secret sound
			//Display message
			$Secret_Message.setKey("text", secret_num);


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