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What I find particularly funny is that CDPR said there are no crunch times for them. That alongside the usual "We do everything better than the establishment" leaves me with the typical foul taste of hypocrisy I also have in my mouth when I consider that Firefox is 90 % dependant on Google's money. Maybe it will open some people's eyes though so they can see that CDPR have their pants on the same way as everybody else. Hypocrites.

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It's an RPG with immersive sim elements, so not really GTA. And just because it's not a clone of Deus Ex it doesn't mean it's not a similar type of game.

One of my favorite hidden features in "Deus ex" is the fact that security bots can run out of ammo. After three minutes it says "out of ammo" and just goes away:  

Deus Ex was supposed to have a mission on the moon, but it was scrapped.

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One of the benefits of getting older is that you (in theory) get wiser, and life experience shows that fanboyism is a fools errand. Everyone has a dark side; CDPR, Valve (not a fan of Valve breaching Australian consumer law regarding refunds several years ago). Holding these companies as paragons of gaming development, worthy of worship, is pointless because it just leads to disappointment when reality comes crashing down. It's all bullshit in the end.

Unfortunately it also means that if I wanted to follow my conscience and avoid companies that have been arseholes in one way or another, I'd basically have to give up gaming and most modern tech because the industry is rife with such bullshit. Not prepared to do that, so I guess we're all hypocrites in the end.

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One of the benefits of getting older is that you (in theory) get wiser. But that also translates to cynicism. :)

A word of warning, Agent Denton. This was a simulated experience; real LAMs will not be so forgiving.

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5 hours ago, Xolvix said:

One of the benefits of getting older is that you (in theory) get wiser. But that also translates to cynicism.

I wouldn't say so, turning into a cynic is a rather easy way out. I'm still fairly optimistic, but I know how to value my time and turn my back on things I don't want to support. I mostly gave up on AAA gaming already, and I don't feel like I'm missing out, just have to dig deeper to find good stuff in the indie market. Kinda same happened to me with music, the good stuff never really went away, it's just moved out of mainstream media.

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1 hour ago, peter_spy said:

I wouldn't say so, turning into a cynic is a rather easy way out. I'm still fairly optimistic, but I know how to value my time and turn my back on things I don't want to support. I mostly gave up on AAA gaming already, and I don't feel like I'm missing out, just have to dig deeper to find good stuff in the indie market. Kinda same happened to me with music, the good stuff never really went away, it's just moved out of mainstream media.

I know you didn't quote it, but the smiley at the end was there for a reason. I recognize that cynicism isn't really all that great and I treat it as "grumpy old man talking here!" when I mention. HOWEVER, cynicism exists due to being beat down by the industry time and time again, almost to the point of not giving a shit anymore. But I'm like you, the real gems aren't always mainstream, they're much more quiet. There's a reason I play TDM for example.

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A word of warning, Agent Denton. This was a simulated experience; real LAMs will not be so forgiving.

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^Agreed :)

Btw. anyone who believes that project managers in game industry have similar competences to those in IT, and it's just the reality of software development, google "Bioware magic".

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9 hours ago, Xolvix said:

One of the benefits of getting older is that you (in theory) get wiser, and life experience shows that fanboyism is a fools errand. Everyone has a dark side; CDPR, Valve (not a fan of Valve breaching Australian consumer law regarding refunds several years ago). Holding these companies as paragons of gaming development, worthy of worship, is pointless because it just leads to disappointment when reality comes crashing down. It's all bullshit in the end.

Unfortunately it also means that if I wanted to follow my conscience and avoid companies that have been arseholes in one way or another, I'd basically have to give up gaming and most modern tech because the industry is rife with such bullshit. Not prepared to do that, so I guess we're all hypocrites in the end.

The question is how relevant that is to me as a customer anyway. What can I really rely on? Third party statements and opinions. I often hold my head in shame when, once again, I read something in the paper about a former employee stating that the work conditions in his ex company are so inhuman. Why... OK...?... I'm also pissed off when I get sacked. Pretty bad timing for a statement, and pretty bad to make a generality out of it. If it was so bad, noone could bare such conditions.

Especially in the game industry, there's loads of enthusiast, as it's pretty much an industry without any secure "I'll be working in the same spot for the rest of my life" warrant. But, considering this is a community based mod forum, I think we all know that. :)

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7 hours ago, chakkman said:

If it was so bad, noone could bare such conditions.

The problem is though that we all make decisions in our lives that can kind of force us to do something that we don't like. Another thing is to be happy with less if it makes you happier, but that possibility kind of depends on the decisions you make again.

When I finished university I saw so many people that weren't happy with the work they had, but they had a mortgage, kids, were married, etc. (examples in no particular order) which made them afraid or made it even impossible for them to give up their job and try something else. The people around me expected me to follow the herd (find a full-time job, buy a home, get married, make some kids). I found my FT job but wasn't happy with it and wasn't looking forward to follow the same layed out path for 40+ years. I also wasn't happy living in my bunched up country, I was missing the extensive nature and peace that I experienced in other countries. I decided to work and travel in various countries to find the country that was perfect for me and where I was able to do what I wanted to do. In the end I have found that country (which obviously isn't perfect, but during my travels I have found out that no country is, it just has to be perfect for you) and although I'm not working in something that I really like now yet, I know that what I'm doing now will make it possible for me to do so in a few years time and I can also quit whenever I like.

Long story short, those people maybe have debts or other obligations that might prevent them from giving up their job and after being sacked all that anger just comes out. I know I would never let it come to that point, but many of us are just like animals living in a herd and make decisions without really thinking them through, because we're expected to follow the layed out path.

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If angels are tainted, then the devil is not so bad.

EA and Konami weren't that bad all along.

At the end of the day there are good people everywhere. But the big boss decides what's good for profit anyway. The bigger the profit and team - the more exploitation.

Only indies and open source projects are truly free of this temptation.

Even long time companies with good reputation such as Ice-Pick Lodge can have some faulty communication. Most glaring example can be their Kickstarter projects. Most famously Knock-Knock and Pathologic 2 had some downsides after, apparently, not crunching. All that resulting in endless delays. So, I don't know what's better. If we polarize, the other extremity is development hell. As a consequence, AFAIK Ice-Pick Lodge might have had some staff layoffs after Pathologic 2 - only 1/3'rd of the game was released with the promise of more.

Game dev is always about compromise after all.

 

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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The most captivating thing for me is how good will Keanu Reeves' performance be in video game form with the motion caption technology and other accessories. Seems to be a major character and a huge advertisement for the game. Hype is just marketing. Will he be as indispensable to the game as Ozzy Osbourne and Jack Black for Brutal Legend? As John DiMaggio's voice for Smiling Jack in Bloodlines? Or will Cyberpunk be another flawed gem that tried too hard to jump over the fence in the field of AAA action RPG's? AFAIK 3 delays happened so far. So many ambitious RPG's that fail.

 

Edited by Anderson

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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I'm surprised they're that low...I'll be damned if I reach a good framerate with high settings on my system, and it's well enough the "Recommended" requirements for 1080p. I think they really set the requirements as low as possible to sell more copies. The Witcher 3 is already hard on the limit on my system in full HD with High settings. Don't think I could max out all settings in TW3.

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I wonder if Nvidia paid to not have AMD recommended on the RT side of the recommended specs. RX 6800 should be able to blow away the RTX 2060 and beat the RTX 2080 Ti in raytracing.

Nvidia has a glowing press release about Cyberpunk's system requirements:

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/cyberpunk-2077-system-requirements/

Quote

 

The minimum GPU for Ray Tracing, at 1920x1080, is the GeForce RTX 2060. Gamers will explore Night City with Medium Ray Tracing Preset powered by DLSS.

At 2560x1440, we recommend a GeForce RTX 3070 or GeForce RTX 2080 Ti. Ray tracing is taken to Ultra, which greatly increases the fidelity of the aforementioned effects, and the distance at which they are visible, while DLSS provides boosted frame rates with uncompromised image quality. And with rasterized settings also being cranked to Ultra, GeForce RTX 3070 and 2080 Ti gamers receive an incredible experience at the highest detail levels, unmatched by any other platform.

 

The only difference is DLSS. I guess AMD should have had a DLSS competitor at launch, and Nvidia is going to lean into raytracing and DLSS to justify the existence of Ampere.

https://www.dsogaming.com/news/nvidia-confirms-that-cyberpunk-2077-ray-tracing-will-work-on-any-dxr-compatible-gpu/

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2 hours ago, chakkman said:

I'm surprised they're that low...I'll be damned if I reach a good framerate with high settings on my system, and it's well enough the "Recommended" requirements for 1080p. I think they really set the requirements as low as possible to sell more copies. The Witcher 3 is already hard on the limit on my system in full HD with High settings. Don't think I could max out all settings in TW3.

No kidding. I had to tweak the config file manually in the game folder to make Witcher 3 work at something acceptable like 30 FPS. Cyberpunk simply won't run unless any ultra low tinkerings would be an option.

But it's not like I don't have a backlog of endless unplayed titles to worry about Cyberpunk now. Especially with all these free giveaways. We are too spoiled.

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"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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2 hours ago, chakkman said:

I'm surprised they're that low...I'll be damned if I reach a good framerate with high settings on my system, and it's well enough the "Recommended" requirements for 1080p. I think they really set the requirements as low as possible to sell more copies. The Witcher 3 is already hard on the limit on my system in full HD with High settings. Don't think I could max out all settings in TW3.

Cyberpunk 2077 will be released on the now previous-gen Xbox One and PlayStation 4, so it's no surprise at all that the minimum requirements are that low. 15 Watt Renoir APUs have more performance, and it's likely that you will see laptop APUs with better graphics performance than PS4 Pro soon (I don't know about Xbox One X).

35 minutes ago, Anderson said:

But it's not like I don't have a backlog of endless unplayed titles to worry about Cyberpunk now. Especially with all these free giveaways. We are too spoiled.

And if you wait a couple of years to build a system capable of playing this, you'll probably be able to get the game for half off and bundled with free/paid DLC and more stability from patches. With cheaper fast SSDs available for the PC market.

Personally I'm looking forward to Zen 4, maybe with a low-TDP GPU from one of the upcoming generations.

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51 minutes ago, jaxa said:

And if you wait a couple of years to build a system capable of playing this, you'll probably be able to get the game for half off and bundled with free/paid DLC and more stability from patches. With cheaper fast SSDs available for the PC market.

Indeed I acquired Witcher 3 for free somehow. My friend (huge Witcher fan, gave me to read the entire saga) sent me the password to his account on GOG so I could play and finish it a few years ago. Recently, I discovered that I own the game itself on GOG. On my own account. I do not recall getting it on a giveaway and I never bought anything on GOG. And even the achievements that I didn't manage to unlock seem to have been transferred somehow. Pleasant surprise. So yeah, sometimes miracles happen I guess.

Thanks for the encouragement. I have a relatively new laptop but even with 8 GB of RAM and an SSD, the processor and video card are probably too weak for this anyway compared to the desktop machine. The heart of any machine used for video games will always lie in the processor and the videocard.

I still fondly remember how I first tried to run GTA IV on an old single core 2.6 Ghz processor with an older video card (Nvidia 6600 or 9500 can't remember which one). After installing GTA IV for about 12 hours, the attempt to run just gave showed an error prompting me to upgrade the machine (not sure what it was, the processor or the videocard at fault, but frankly both were deprecated). Can't remember the details, but it was the first time I've ever seen an application directly refuse to launch just because the app doesn't like the machine.

Edited by Anderson
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"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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9 hours ago, jaxa said:

Cyberpunk 2077 will be released on the now previous-gen Xbox One and PlayStation 4, so it's no surprise at all that the minimum requirements are that low. 15 Watt Renoir APUs have more performance, and it's likely that you will see laptop APUs with better graphics performance than PS4 Pro soon (I don't know about Xbox One X).

Console versions have always been tweaked to very low details. That doesn't really tell much about system requirements on the PC. RDR 2 runs a lot better on my Xbox One S than on my vastly more powerful PC.

On the other hand it's running at 30 FPS max anyway, so...

Anyway, I'm 100% sure that Cyberpunk won't run well on my PC. As I mentioned, they will surely have set the requirements well below that of ther requirements to run the game comfortably at decent details to sell more games. It's always been like that. The Witcher 3 already didn't run well here in high details, so why would Cyberpunk do? It surely isn't below TW3's system requirements.

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On 11/21/2020 at 11:55 AM, chakkman said:

Console versions have always been tweaked to very low details. That doesn't really tell much about system requirements on the PC. RDR 2 runs a lot better on my Xbox One S than on my vastly more powerful PC.

That's because the default settings on PC already have significantly more fidelity than the console settings. I have once seen a comparison video showing the effect of all settings and the console equivalents for those settings. You had to set most settings to low, to get the console look. I believe that video was by digital foundry. Might be this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1iNSyvIPaY

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That's why I said that Cyberpunk being released for last gen consoles doesn't say much about PC requirements. I'm sur it'll take more than The Witcher 3, which means that it's above the requirements CDPR stated.

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I played Witcher 3 comfortably on a computer that's below minimum requirements for CP2077.

Anyway here's a short fan-projekt I worked on for quite some time:

 

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It's only a model...

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