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1 hour ago, jaxa said:

Don't play any game on day 1. Don't install any OS updates on day 1, etc.

Well I can't say much about operating system updates, but as for games I normally have this rule as well. However there's two games in recent memory that I broke it for - Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Mankind Divided. I played HR immediately on release and as it turns out it was quite stable (some minor bugs but they were fixed and weren't too dramatic), but Mankind Divided... oh boy.

Upon release, if you had any pre-order DLC enabled it would crash the main game on startup. So I disabled the DLC via Steam just to get the base game going, but then it would reliably crash at the end of the walking intro just after the prologue (the train station section, specifically where it transition from in-game rendering to the pre-rendered video of the explosion). This was a known bug that lots of people were seeing for a while before it was fixed, but I was infuriated that it was in the release version of the game and it left a sour taste in my mouth. Got a refund pretty easily since it was under 2 hours. Waited a while, bought the game several months later and it was smooth as silk.

A word of warning, Agent Denton. This was a simulated experience; real LAMs will not be so forgiving.

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Well no-one's said much since release yet. Either people are still playing it or haven't noticed. Still in the initial tutorial section, not really feeling it yet but it is still very early on. Performance is crap on my GTX 970 which I somewhat expect being a few gens behind, but it's still annoying. Fortunately even on the low setting it still looks quite decent as "low" in this case doesn't look like the low you'd see in older FPS games. Bugs... we'll they're famous at this point, not much to say. May post more observations later.

EDIT: Performance is just too unpleasant even on low, I can't make it much better short of dynamic resolution scaling which just blurs things. Unfortunately it's the ONLY game I have which defeats my graphics card, and that hasn't so far been a motivation to spend hundreds on a new card just for a single game.

EDIT 2: Gonna have to stop playing it. Performance sucks too much on low, whereas an older title like Deus Ex Mankind Divided works fine on higher settings and look a lot better. Again I know the card is out of date but the performance in this game just doesn't match the visuals. That and the bugs, very disappointing, I guess the delays show just how bad the development of the game was. Maybe it'll turn out better, in a few months after some updates (and maybe an upgrade) it'll be OK.

Edited by Xolvix

A word of warning, Agent Denton. This was a simulated experience; real LAMs will not be so forgiving.

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Well... shit. It looks like my experiences aren't that unusual though; I read a few others with 970's and they had lame FPS even on low settings as well, but there's also people with decent rigs who are struggling to get 60 FPS on medium settings. The game is fickle about what hardware it likes.

In any case, I can wait. I'll definitely upgrade eventually because anything new in AAA-land doesn't run the greatest anyway on my GPU, it's just that I haven't cared for much new stuff so there was no motivation to spend the money, but it looks like I've met my match. I could probably grin and bear it on low with modest FPS, but it doesn't matter because the game has issues anyway. The UI is confusing, glitchy (had it ignore keypresses during conversations for examples) and a bit annoying to navigate, but it seems clear that even with all of the good that it promises, it could do with a bit more time in the oven.

People said the same thing about Witcher 3 apparently, how it was released fairly buggy but after a few months it was pretty good. I only started getting into it once the GOTY edition came around, so I missed all of that. But people on consoles (especially last gen PS4/XBOX which are still the majority) are complaining about its performance (and crashes) so CDPR has no excuse.

A word of warning, Agent Denton. This was a simulated experience; real LAMs will not be so forgiving.

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I got myself a 3060 Ti OC for this game, just to find out, that even a 3090 cannot run it at highest details. ūüėĄ

I am running the game at high preset with Raytracing on medium and DLSS on balanced and get around 60 fps. Without DLSS it is absolutely unplayable with Raytracing enabled, around 15-20 fps. Feels like playing God of War on the basic PS4. ūüėĄ

So far the game is fun, I am not really far, yet, though'.

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Played for a bit yesterday. The atmosphere is great, it feels like Deus Ex meets GTA with a side serving of several other things :D

I'm still struggling with all of the gameplay mechanics; so far I've mostly played it rather awkwardly as a shooter. But it definitely has more depth than that, just haven't really gotten the hang of things, yet.

I'm not 100% sure about the first person perspective. I get that it was an artistic choice, and it's definitely interesting to see some of the cutscenes from an ego perspective. But it also feels like a third person view might have made navigating easier in some situations. Eh, I'll probably get used to it :)

Game definitely has bugs, though. Haven't encountered anything game-breaking (yet), but I've seen characters clip through solid objects or walking through my car. And on occasion, they cause a chain reaction of breaking bottles or other stuff by walking into objects :D

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Yeah it is a bit weird with this game, i have other games that actually look better which as a perversion since the game engine they run on was actually considered ludicrous for that times hardware (crysis series) actually run quite well today compared. Hell even the first cryengine based game farcry 1 had better gfx than many newer titles Oo.

raytracing tanks my old 390 card but it was newer built around that functionality in the first place so it is understandable.

Im not sure nvidias tensor cores are a good idea in the long run since it kinda smells of the same bad idea as with physx.

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17 hours ago, Xolvix said:

Well no-one's said much since release yet. Either people are still playing it or haven't noticed. Still in the initial tutorial section, not really feeling it yet but it is still very early on. Performance is crap on my GTX 970 which I somewhat expect being a few gens behind, but it's still annoying. Fortunately even on the low setting it still looks quite decent as "low" in this case doesn't look like the low you'd see in older FPS games. Bugs... we'll they're famous at this point, not much to say. May post more observations later.

 

...and by now it is clear why the console versions could not be tested in advance; the versions seem very buggy and slimmed down.

Apparently they gave out only the PC version for the tests so that there will be good ratings most probably with the intention that there will be enough console players buying the game on a wrong basis.

hm....  :( :( :(

 

 

Edited by JackFarmer
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Can't an update be downloaded for the consoles? I totally agree that the sorry state the game is in, may be described as regrettable to say the least. Cyberpunk 2077 belongs in the Early Access category.

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate ‚ÄĒ the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active ‚ÄĒ not more happy ‚ÄĒ nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary ‚ÄĒ and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain ‚ÄĒ that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future ‚ÄĒ that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves ‚ÄĒ nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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5 minutes ago, Anderson said:

Can't an update be downloaded for the consoles? I totally agree that the sorry state the game is in, may be described as regrettable to say the least. Cyberpunk 2077 belongs in the Early Access category.

Good question, I read that some guys consider the problems way too significant to be fixed with an update for the PS4.

I really wanted to check it out as I thought that could be a cool addition to the Deus Ex games. :( :( :(

I think I will continue with mapping for HHB&M and have some drinks in the evening....

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4 hours ago, revelator said:

Im not sure nvidias tensor cores are a good idea in the long run since it kinda smells of the same bad idea as with physx.

Real time raytracing is here to stay. RDNA 2 GPUs have it, and more importantly the new Xbox and PS5 have it, so that will be targeted by developers for the next 5-7 years. AMD's GPU implementation has as many "ray accelerators" as compute units (e.g. RX 6800 XT has 72 compute units and 72 ray accelerators), which could mean only one or the other can be active. I'm not sure.

Nvidia's Ampere did not increase raytracing performance as much as was expected (about 2x instead of 4x?). I think they can fix it with Hopper, which should be a multi-chip module design. Actually, Hopper, RDNA 3, and Intel's Xe could all use MCMs by around 2022.

Within 10 years, raytracing acceleration could become mandatory, with a shift away from rasterization and towards complete raytracing in games. This will presumably make things easier for game developers as they will be able to throw lights wherever they want and get nearly photorealistic results, in theory.

Edited by jaxa
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jaxa this raytracing is not full raytracing, is a mix of both rasterization and raytracing, most games only use a small amount of raytracing effects and need¬†really fast and expensive GPU's to run, to me at acceptable frame rates, at and above 60fps, at 1080p or above. To me¬†anyone buying a 200‚ā¨ GPU can forget raytracing.¬†¬†Also imo, it will take more than a decade for games to be totally raytraced,¬†unless your game has the complexity of Quake 2. And even in raytracing the more lights you use the slower it gets.¬†

Edited by HMart
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1 minute ago, HMart said:

jaxa this raytracing is not full raytracing, is a mix of both rasterization and raytracing, most games only use a small amount of rasterization and need¬†really fast and expensive GPU's to run, to me at acceptable frame rates, at and above 60fps, at 1080p or above. To me¬†anyone buying a 200‚ā¨ GPU can forget raytracing.¬†¬†Also imo, it will take more than a decade for games to be totally raytraced,¬†unless your game has the complexity of Quake 2. And even in raytracing the more lights you use the slower it gets.¬†

I didn't say Cyberpunk has full raytracing. I said you could see games rendering everything with just raytracing within 10 years. With the caveat that it will still be sparse ray tracing with a denoising algorithm.

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You are right no you didn't, but I've seen some people think raytracing is replacing totally rasterization, and I mean now, so I wrongly assumed you were one of them, sorry.  IMO there's to much misinformation on this stuff and to me Nvidia's marketing is to blame.

And I disagree with you, in that we will have full raytraced games and be mandatory in a decade, specially because that will require that low to mind range GPU's are full RT capable, unless you want this market to not play games going forward and it will also require, IMO AI "cheats" like DLSS, but that needs AMD to come up with their own version and both make it work in all their GPU line ups and specially find a way to make it work, without the developer having to send the game to them for training, this fact is the main reason only a few games support DLSS.

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7 hours ago, STiFU said:

Which ones? Honestly, I feel like CP77 (on PC) is the most beautiful game right now, dethrowning God of War.

From what I've seen, the issue is that Cyberpunk 2077 is probably the most beautiful game right now, IF you have a rig able to run with at the highest settings. It's a game which graphically blossoms with high-end gear, but on low/medium settings it frankly looks worse than Mankind Divided or even Witcher 3 when those are running at high despite being several years older. It's easily the most demanding game currently, which means not many people are going to be able to experience it in its full glory yet until they upgrade.

And spare a thought for those with base PS4 machines, which are still very common as the new consoles haven't been on the market for that long yet:

 

A word of warning, Agent Denton. This was a simulated experience; real LAMs will not be so forgiving.

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4 hours ago, JackFarmer said:

Good question, I read that some guys consider the problems way too significant to be fixed with an update for the PS4.

I really wanted to check it out as I thought that could be a cool addition to the Deus Ex games. :( :( :(

I think I will continue with mapping for HHB&M and have some drinks in the evening....

At least the memes are strong with Cyberpunk: https://www.facebook.com/ThingsThatAreNotAesthetic/posts/3988245941187009

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate ‚ÄĒ the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active ‚ÄĒ not more happy ‚ÄĒ nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary ‚ÄĒ and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain ‚ÄĒ that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future ‚ÄĒ that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves ‚ÄĒ nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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Since I'm desperate for immersive sim (or sim-like games) I'm gonna give this game another go even with its issues, but there's a few tweaks now that may be useful to some:

Disable anti-aliasing to improve image clarity and reduce ghosting/blur due to TAA:
https://old.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/kb1pw4/way_to_disable_taa/

Disable double-tap to dodge (I remember this from my unreal tournament days, but now it's just confusing):
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Cyberpunk_2077#Disable_double-tap_dodge

There's gonna be more tweaks over time, hopefully one to disable the intro splash screens.

Oh and one more thing: https://old.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/kb2jgj/i_just_realized_that_there_is_no_ai_for_driving/

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A word of warning, Agent Denton. This was a simulated experience; real LAMs will not be so forgiving.

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They started patching it. 1.04 just came out fixing some progress-blocking bugs. They also toned down flashing lights during 'braindance' people were complaining about. I'm yet to play it. I want to upgrade my PC, but now I'm thinking about playing it on Geforce Now before I do that.

When Witcher 3 came out PC gamers were complaining that the game was downgraded with consoles in mind. Now console gamers complain that you need high end PC to run CP2077.

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It's only a model...

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51 minutes ago, Arcturus said:

When Witcher 3 came out PC gamers were complaining that the game was downgraded with consoles in mind. Now console gamers complain that you need high end PC to run CP2077.

I'm not a fan of this "us vs. them" business with PC and console gamers. We're all shit on high by devs/publishers at times, there's no need for conflict. Witcher 3 looks perfectly fine for me, if I didn't know any better than I wouldn't have guessed there was any "downgrade". But in game development sometimes downgrades are necessary in order to get the game to work on consoles. At least it looks like this game works best on PCs (high end ones anyway), but it's not fair to console owners who expect something a little more decent.

Also regarding that TAA disabling tweak, I tried it out and it could just be a placebo but I could swear the game runs a bit faster with it disabled, so despite what some suggest, on low end machines it might actually help make a difference. The downside is the engine kinda assumes AA is active so there's shimmering everywhere (very obvious in the corpo intro). Compromises, compromises...

A word of warning, Agent Denton. This was a simulated experience; real LAMs will not be so forgiving.

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Here's another tweak: https://www.thenerdmag.com/how-to-disable-cyberpunk-2077-mouse-smoothing-on-pc/

If you want snapper mouse response, do what it says even though the "Response Curve" option is in the Controller section; for some stupid reason it affects the mouse as well.

In addition, click on "Show Advanced Options" under the Controller section, and reduce the "Turning Delay" to 0. Again, it seems to affect the mouse as well. I'm fairly sensitive to mouse lag and these settings helped. 8 years development time people.

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A word of warning, Agent Denton. This was a simulated experience; real LAMs will not be so forgiving.

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OK, avoid disabling the anti-alising. Yes it makes things sharper but the shimmering is fugly as hell. Not worth it unfortunately.

Also, INSTALL THE PATCH! It doesn't explicitly talk about performance improvements but it seems to actually provide a noticeable FPS improvement to the point where it's a lot more fun. Not willing to bump up the settings yet so it's not amazing looking (for me anyway) but it's definitely much more playable. Not everyone's seeing the improvements, but it looks like the benefits are best seen by those running into performance issues to begin with.

Having said that there's still a lot to fix. Ran into a beggar on the street, turned briefly to see a TV playing an ad or something, turned back and the beggar (and his sign) were gone. Maybe he was able to find gainful employment in the 5 seconds I looked away.

Edited by Xolvix
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A word of warning, Agent Denton. This was a simulated experience; real LAMs will not be so forgiving.

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1 hour ago, STiFU said:

FB_IMG_1607763217800.jpg

Nice catch, Stifu, that's aboslutely correct, however, the terminology in the quote is wrong:

The relevant European Standard is called DIN EN 124 and the name of the load classes are either B125 or D400 - but definitely without the "Begu" word as no non-German professionals would understand that it means "Betonguss". :)

 

 

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