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mcmike1489

Roadmap for TDM in 2020

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[Swiggy] Multiplayer thief? That would be interesting. Is there any networking code still remaining in TDM that was brought over from the Doom 3/id Tech 4 code base?

If not, I could probably do it. I have a superficial knowledge of C++, it's all sockets and shit right? :)

It's all fragmented to hell. There are bits and pieces in random little places. But I believe some systems would have to be redone from the ground up because they assume the player is $player1. I think a lot of FMs do too, so it's not clear many FMs would even work; well not in their vanilla form but they might if the system itself rebuilds the map file to be multiplayer compliant. But that might be a bit much for the base game, which makes the main alternative a forked version of the game ... although IMHO still worth it just because multiplayer thieving, coop and competitive both, is some of the most fun I've had playing multiplayer for any game ever. That also reminds me, we'd also need new systems for handling coop and competitive style gameplay, like players sharing loot and objectives for coop, and Thievery is a good model for competitive gameplay (thieves vs guards).

But anyway, it's not only a matter of the networking code by itself (although there's that too), there are these other things to address, and every piece is a big thing by itself. Still though, it'd be glorious.


What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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About the use of unreal engine. Does somebody know who "Euline Federchen" on youtube.
(through him/her i learned about sotha tdm video tutorial)
He/she working on a stealth u4 project In some videos he use tdm music. (video in the spoiler)

Is is an idea to help him? Or to convince him use use our nc textures, models, etc?

 

 

 

Edited by freyk

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Yes, that's Filizitas on our forums. That UE4 presentation is a bit long (who needs to see collecting the same things time and time again?), but it looks promising overall.

Edited by peter_spy

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I haven't been here in a long time, nice to see that people are still around. I think move to U4 could be a good solution to get the mod to a new level, i could even offer some assets to the cause just to start. In the past 3 years im working with Unity trying to make a RPG game, but im interested in put my hands on the Unreal engine editor. Theres an asset in the store called "Shadow Stealth" works with blueprints and i think im going to try it and let you know.

 
 
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3 hours ago, Capela said:

I haven't been here in a long time, nice to see that people are still around. I think move to U4 could be a good solution to get the mod to a new level, i could even offer some assets to the cause just to start. In the past 3 years im working with Unity trying to make a RPG game, but im interested in put my hands on the Unreal engine editor. Theres an asset in the store called "Shadow Stealth" works with blueprints and i think im going to try it and let you know.

 
 

Lets go again... if you want TDM to change engines to UE4 or Unity or whatever the only way that will happen, is if you and others willing to help you do it, why? Because the current oficial TDM team has said many times that they will not ditch the current game, tools and engine, there's way way to much work and time put into this, from many different people and they will not just throw everything away and start essentially from scratch on a new engine.

Btw this "desire" has been posted so much that IMO the forum needs a FAQ. 

Edited by HMart

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there's already been a multiplayer thief it was called thievery. https://thief.fandom.com/wiki/Thievery

 

as for changing the dark mod engine to unreal 4 engine will break so many fan made maps it wont be worth the effort you would put into it. You'lled end up with an engine and hardly any maps, or maybe just none.

Edited by stumpy
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There is also a fan-made mod that allows for multiplayer Thief 2 FMs. Some of my favorite gaming moments ever have been for Thievery and multiplayer Thief 2 FMs. They're awesome, although dated now. This is part of why I want multiplayer TDM, to bring that experience back to life. 

Recreating TDM in a new engines would be ... a lot of work for an end product that would be a sad shell of what we have now. It's not like it's a logical impossibility; it's just the facts are against it. 

Where we can have a live debate, where it's not so obvious what's best and reasonable people can reasonably disagree, is for a stealth game in a different genre, whether we should fork off the TDM base or start with a new base in a new engine. And the leading candidate for that IMO is a cyberpunk stealth game. There have been at least two attempts at it as a TDM mod (not a total conversion but just mods I believe; the difference is, does it change the source code). But I don't know the status of those.

I personally would like to see one made, and I think forking off the TDM base is the way to go. The main reason is because our AI code is so advanced, and that's one of the first ways that independent projects may stumble. Anyone can create good assets in a few months, but if the AI is dysfunctional, you don't have a good stealth game.

People may not appreciate that the TDM code base wasn't written in just 4 years (2005 to 2009), but actually ~15 years (2005 to 2019) because of the updates. And it's kind of mind boggling how much time and work has gone into those 15 years if you actually followed it. 

Well, anyway, I vote for somebody to make a cyberpunk stealth game off a TDM base. And multiplayer TDM. I have spoken. 

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What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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2 hours ago, demagogue said:

Where we can have a live debate, where it's not so obvious what's best and reasonable people can reasonably disagree, is for a stealth game in a different genre, whether we should fork off the TDM base or start with a new base in a new engine. And the leading candidate for that IMO is a cyberpunk stealth game.

Yeah, yeah, YEAH!

Unfortunately, the 2 attempts so far seemed a bit over ambitious, in terms of being one man projects, with no other help. On the other hand, I really don't know if a TDM fork would be the right approach. The biggest issue for me has always been the performance. Even with the recently introduced multicore option, TDM just takes too much CPU. At least for the visual quality it can produce. Would be better to start something like that in a new engine, IMO. Of course, much more work as well, but, who knows? I think Deus Ex still has a strong fan base. 

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What i wish TDM had, like a better sorting system for fan missions downloader. I would like to see the latest FMs first and block out older stuff.

I know this is very subjective but what kingsal does with the inventory and items in his Volta missions is truely outstanding. I wish more missions would use this more advanced system.

I wish the item grid would also show arrows and weapons. Scrolling through them is clunky and accidently hitting a fire arrow is just wrong.

I feel like TDM is already at its peak. Its 11 years old by now and its full of tiny details.
NPCs rotating their heads into directions... like looking around. They can even light torches and candles...
There are just a few things missing now.

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Can we have more scary Zombie Horror maps?

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14 hours ago, HMart said:

Lets go again... if you want TDM to change engines to UE4 or Unity or whatever the only way that will happen, is if you and others willing to help you do it, why? Because the current oficial TDM team has said many times that they will not ditch the current game, tools and engine, there's way way to much work and time put into this, from many different people and they will not just throw everything away and start essentially from scratch on a new engine.

Btw this "desire" has been posted so much that IMO the forum needs a FAQ. 

 

But thats what i said that im willing to help..??? i follow TDM mod since the begining and believe me i know the huge work was made by the TDM team. Im just discussing ideias thats all.

 

Regards

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Not everyone is able to help. I must admit that I'm utterly useless in about any regard of game development. 

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There is a general desire to make a streamline Thief like game that can grow and relight the thief community.

People here love the thief franchise and the entire stealth genre, so its no wonder that emotions cook over.

Thief 2014 did an amazing job for us by showing us how big the market is and how massive the interest is.
Would TDM be different if it had a more public crowd, a bigger community?

Is TDM even ready for such a thing and do people here want that?

A push to a new engine has massive implications, its simply dangerous.

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Can we have more scary Zombie Horror maps?

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3 hours ago, demagogue said:

There is also a fan-made mod that allows for multiplayer Thief 2 FMs. Some of my favorite gaming moments ever have been for Thievery and multiplayer Thief 2 FMs. They're awesome, although dated now. This is part of why I want multiplayer TDM, to bring that experience back to life. 

Recreating TDM in a new engines would be ... a lot of work for an end product that would be a sad shell of what we have now. It's not like it's a logical impossibility; it's just the facts are against it. 

Where we can have a live debate, where it's not so obvious what's best and reasonable people can reasonably disagree, is for a stealth game in a different genre, whether we should fork off the TDM base or start with a new base in a new engine. And the leading candidate for that IMO is a cyberpunk stealth game. There have been at least two attempts at it as a TDM mod (not a total conversion but just mods I believe; the difference is, does it change the source code). But I don't know the status of those.

I personally would like to see one made, and I think forking off the TDM base is the way to go. The main reason is because our AI code is so advanced, and that's one of the first ways that independent projects may stumble. Anyone can create good assets in a few months, but if the AI is dysfunctional, you don't have a good stealth game.

People may not appreciate that the TDM code base wasn't written in just 4 years (2005 to 2009), but actually ~15 years (2005 to 2019) because of the updates. And it's kind of mind boggling how much time and work has gone into those 15 years if you actually followed it. 

Well, anyway, I vote for somebody to make a cyberpunk stealth game off a TDM base. And multiplayer TDM. I have spoken. 

The problem i see to make a stealth cyberpunk game its the tecnology. With infrared cameras you cant hide in the shadows anymore, unless you use a stealth suit or something like that but then its not about your skills and more a gear aproach...just my thoughts.

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Switching to a new engine comes up repeatedly, and is less realistic every time it gets raised. 
 

 

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3 hours ago, Capela said:

The problem i see to make a stealth cyberpunk game its the tecnology. With infrared cameras you cant hide in the shadows anymore, unless you use a stealth suit or something like that but then its not about your skills and more a gear aproach...just my thoughts.

Deus Ex has rather simple stealth gameplay mechanics. I'd be absolutely alright with those, no need to make them more sophisticated. Would rather be "nice to have". 

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I remember finding the Nightblade thread from 2010 and swooning over the environment art. It makes me wonder about salvageable assets rather than gamecode, though.

Edited by VanishedOne

Some things I'm repeatedly thinking about...

 

- louder scream when you're dying

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9 hours ago, chakkman said:

Deus Ex has rather simple stealth gameplay mechanics. I'd be absolutely alright with those, no need to make them more sophisticated. Would rather be "nice to have". 

Or maybe a cyberpunk/post-apocalyptic environment that could be interesting indeed.

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On 3/5/2020 at 5:38 AM, Springheel said:

Switching to a new engine comes up repeatedly, and is less realistic every time it gets raised. 
 

 

And moving to another engine would actually be a step backwards, unless it is free and open source. Since id games are open source, the sky is the limit, just look at path tracing in Quake 2. With some commercial proprietary engine, such features can never be implemented, unless the company developing it feels like it.

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I totally agree with everything Snowy said. DarkRadiant is an excellent tool but I feel that it is far too complicated for many to learn and use. I have years and years of mapping experience but the thought of sitting down and spending days/weeks/years learning how to effectively use DarkRadiant has prevented me from doing so. I would love to see the development of an easier and more limited tool. I would defiantly use that tool and perhaps from that I would go on to finally learn how to use the full strength version of DarkRadiant.

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Could look to Roblox Studio as a model? If my 8 year old can get in on making custom Roblox games with that, perhaps something similar would be a good “watered-down” noob friendly DR

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