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Beta Testing 2.08


stgatilov
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Current AO with "Low" setting has the same 10% performance hit on NV and AMD GPUs having maxed out the rest (Soft Shadows on Medium, no Bloom).

Edited by lowenz
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Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

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Speaking about performance, any improvements for shadow maps for 2.08? Not sure if you did any comparison profiling with stencil vs. shadowmaps, but on my rigs stencil maps are much less taxing for both CPUs and GPUs. I think CPUs in particular are doing a better and better job with stencil shadows, with subsequent generations.

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I think we'll have to consider shadow maps an ongoing experimental feature.

One significant hurdle (in my opinion) is that not all light types are implemented in shadow maps, which means that the engine will fall back to stencil for some lights and thus still generates stencil shadow volumes even when you select shadow maps. So in a way, you currently get the worst of both worlds with shadow maps :D

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Move them to the experimental section, no problem!

And yes, they're taxing the system and it's why I've accepted to set them to "medium" with the minimum radius (0.5).

It'a a good choice for everybody with a recent but not "top of the line" system, together with SSAO set to "low".

These 2 can really gracefully soften the scene.

Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

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1 hour ago, lowenz said:

These 2 can really gracefully soften the scene.

Stencil shadows + soft shadows (low) + SSAO (low) do the same, but at overall lower performance cost. At least that's what I'm seeing on several different hardware configs. Reasons stated by Cabalistic are one thing, but I suspect there are other factors like how cascading or render distance is set up :) 

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I don't know if this beta test is an opportunity to look at this, but there seems to have been a map breaking regression, probably introduced in 2.07, which makes it impossible to complete The King of Diamonds without resorting to noclip.  Specifically, there is an key character in an upstairs room who is scripted to wake up and walk out of the room at some point in play, but he is stuck against the chair he is trying to walk away from.  Looking at reports of this problem in the forum (and on a posted playthrough on youtube) I'm pretty sure this started around the time 2.07 came out.

Is there any way this bug can be fixed?

Edited by Araneidae
typo
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1 minute ago, Araneidae said:

I don't know if this beta test is an opportunity to look at this, but there seems to have been a map breaking regression, probably introduced in 2.07, which makes it impossible to complete The King of Diamonds without resorting to noclip.  Specifically, there is an key character in an upstairs room who is scripted to wake up and walk out of the room at some point in play, but he is stuck against the chair he is trying to walk away from.  Looking at reports of this problem in the form (and on a posted playthrough on youtube) I'm pretty sure this started around the time 2.07 came out.

Is there any way this bug can be fixed?

Chair and Bed navigation have been improved in 2.08. Are you able to reproduce this in 2.08 beta?

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3 minutes ago, Araneidae said:

Yes, that's why I mentioned it here!  Do you want a save game?

Yes please. Also, does this happen with both capped and uncapped FPS?

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43 minutes ago, nbohr1more said:

Yes please. Also, does this happen with both capped and uncapped FPS?

That's a nuisance.  I can only upload 0.5MB, and the save game, even after compression, is 2.3MB.  I don't have anywhere else to put it, I'm afraid.

Also, I'm afraid I don't know how to set FPS capping, unless you're referring to the Vsync option, in which case I had it enabled and unsetting it didn't seem to make much difference.

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21 hours ago, cabalistic said:

Nvidia's SAO isn't really specific to Nvidia cards. All the techniques it uses are in some way also present in the FidelityFX implementation or Intel's ASSAO, those just add a couple additional advanced optimizations :)

Reasons for SAO: it was well documented, had an OpenGL sample implementation, good license, was reasonably simple to implement in a reasonable amount of code (definitely much less than the afore-mentioned ones!) and offers reasonable quality at reasonable performance - not fully state of the art, but also significantly better than some basic implementations that you often find in tutorials (and which I started with in my first attempt) :)

Thanks for the explanation I see your point I would do the same. :)  

9 hours ago, cabalistic said:

I think we'll have to consider shadow maps an ongoing experimental feature.

One significant hurdle (in my opinion) is that not all light types are implemented in shadow maps, which means that the engine will fall back to stencil for some lights and thus still generates stencil shadow volumes even when you select shadow maps. So in a way, you currently get the worst of both worlds with shadow maps :D

 Then it was very well done because I don't remember ever realizing that some shadows were stencil based!

Btw IMO we can't fully compare stencil performance, to shadow maps, why, because shadow maps can cast shadows that stencil can't, like from alpha mapped textures, right now that is not much of a reason, because official alpha textures have the "noshadows" keyword but someone can make custom materials for their missions. So maps will always run a little slower than stencil even if max optimized. 

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21 minutes ago, Araneidae said:

That's a nuisance.  I can only upload 0.5MB, and the save game, even after compression, is 2.3MB.  I don't have anywhere else to put it, I'm afraid.

You do have a GMAIL account, right?

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4 hours ago, Araneidae said:

there seems to have been a map breaking regression, probably introduced in 2.07, which makes it impossible to complete The King of Diamonds without resorting to noclip.

Did you have similar problem on 2.05 or 2.06? Usually it's a bad approach to fix mapping bugs by changing something in the engine. Some maps have mappers' errors left that manifest much later in conjunction with features that were added correctly. It's better to check the map before you ask to change something in the engine.

Edited by peter_spy
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@nbohr1more

@stgatilov

You guys were right, after updating to 2.08 it looks like...

1.  ...crashes during WIP loading have vanished and

2. ...in game crashes in WIP area with fire elementals have vanished as well!

Thank you, after adding final voice lines in the next days I will start beta/optimizing!

Jack

P.S. ....love the new swimming system, although I think I will have to add a few more breath potions as the lake is very, very deep! :)

P.P.S. ...and I have the feeling, that everything runs much faster now!

 

 

Edited by JackFarmer
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I found an odd glitch with a new model I believe @Springheel this is from your module set? The model in question is "models/darkmod/architecture/modules/sewer_tunnels01/round_sewer_straight01_hole.lwo"

YyZMt2f.png

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On 5/13/2020 at 9:20 PM, Araneidae said:

I don't know if this beta test is an opportunity to look at this, but there seems to have been a map breaking regression, probably introduced in 2.07, which makes it impossible to complete The King of Diamonds without resorting to noclip.  Specifically, there is an key character in an upstairs room who is scripted to wake up and walk out of the room at some point in play, but he is stuck against the chair he is trying to walk away from.  Looking at reports of this problem in the forum (and on a posted playthrough on youtube) I'm pretty sure this started around the time 2.07 came out.

I think it is related to 3989.

I would appreciate if you write exact steps to reproduce the problem. I mean a list of the actions that player must do, including coordinates of all locations.

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On 5/3/2020 at 2:17 PM, Abusimplea said:

On playing 2.08 beta 5 with 64 bit color i noticed that the using-the-correct-lockpick highlight is somewhat too bright (like using an RGB multiplier):
 

bcd_2020-05-03_13.00.51.jpg

Can reproduce in Gatehouse then picking the first pickable door

FWIW color depth is 32

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9 hours ago, Goldwell said:

I found an odd glitch with a new model I believe @Springheel this is from your module set? The model in question is "models/darkmod/architecture/modules/sewer_tunnels01/round_sewer_straight01_hole.lwo"

 

 

Uploaded a fix to SVN.

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On 5/16/2020 at 8:37 AM, stgatilov said:

I think it is related to 3989.

I would appreciate if you write exact steps to reproduce the problem. I mean a list of the actions that player must do, including coordinates of all locations.

OK.  It would have been easier if there was somewhere for me to upload the save file, but here are the steps (I've marked two steps which I think count as spoilers):

  • Start a new mission for The King of Diamonds (difficulty irrelevant)
  • Go to initial rendezvous at 219.72 -27.49 274.25 23.3 70.2 0.0 as required in briefing, pick up documents as requested.
  • Spoiler

    Pickpocket key from engineer character, somewhere near -244.39 1132.31 52.7 -6.3 45.5 0.0

  • Unlock door at 2082.19 1702.78 66.25 -7.9 58.3 0.0 (after picking door behind you)
  • Spoiler

    Climb onto pipe at 2547.04 1729.14 260.25 -9.7 -3.3 0.0

  • Enter compound, go up stairs, go through door straightahead, go into loft, and reach locked door at 1754.17 3027.94 468.25 8.0 -21.6 0.0. 
  • This door is locked, is unpickable, and the key is held by the trapped character inside.  His coordinates are close to 2172.21 3014.55 439.48 15.7 176.0 0.0: to my surprise I was able to walk inside his character mode, which is where that coordinate comes from.

 

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On 5/16/2020 at 1:46 PM, duzenko said:

Can reproduce in Gatehouse then picking the first pickable door

FWIW color depth is 32

Same for me on every map I tried, though I was using x64. Annoying cause it's so bright both the red and green.

My Fan Missions:

   Series:                                                                           Standalone:

Chronicles of Skulduggery 0: To Catch a Thief                     The Night of Reluctant Benefaction

Chronicles of Skulduggery 1: Pearls and Swine                    Langhorne Lodge

Chronicles of Skulduggery 2: A Precarious Position              

Chronicles of Skulduggery 3: Sacricide

 

 

 

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I would probably call this a release candidate.

 

I guess the one issue with stuck AI:

https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=3989

is the last blocker.

 

The other remaining issues are enhancements or non-critical fixes.

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