Graphics Technology Sharepoint

[STiFU]

I think it is actually quite weird that we don't have a thread on graphics technology, yet. So, I would like to encourage you to share awesome new demos, talks, articles or papers about graphics technology here.

I recently came accross this brilliant analysis of the rendering pipeline of "Rise of the Tomb Raider". I would love to see something like that for Doom Eternal, but so far, I could only find this rather superficial (but nevertheless interesting) review by Digital Foundry.

Epic revealed Unreal Engine 5 today, which looks absolutely stunning. That Nanite-Technology will probably save game developers quite a bit of time. I do wonder, 'though, how the actually do it? Do they dynamically generate LOD-models? Also, does their Lumen technology require RTX?

 

[lowenz]

RTX (Nvidia exclusive)?  No, but maybe DXR.....and maybe there's a dumbed down version limited to screenspace (see CryEngine solution).

About graphics technology: https://gpuopen.com/ (every technology with a sample)

[chakkman]

Graphics are cool. I prefer gameplay though. 

I know, I'm of a dying breed.

[HMart]

54 minutes ago, chakkman said:

Graphics are cool. I prefer gameplay though. 

I know, I'm of a dying breed.

Welcome to the clube, i'm the same.   That sure looks impressive but my graphics "wow" level stop at Crysis release after that every AAA game looks fine to me. 

Btw that virtual geometry tech, seems similar to something John Carmack talked about the guy that made the engine TDM uses, for those that don't know. He talked about it after Doom 3 came out, i bet it uses voxels tech like he said.  

Edited May 13, 2020 by HMart

[STiFU]

37 minutes ago, chakkman said:

Graphics are cool. I prefer gameplay though. 

I know, I'm of a dying breed.

I am not implying that I only play games with superb AAA-graphics.  But I'd still like to know how these technologies work because it is simply very interesting!!  

[STiFU]

13 minutes ago, HMart said:

i bet it uses voxels tech like he said.  

They were talking about triangles, so no. My guess is, they automatically generate LODs at map compilation or something like that.

[HMart]

Perhaps voxels are used in the background and then converted to triangles, I think that is how Zbrush works.  And this works transvoxel.

Who knows perhaps they are using that algorithm but much more advanced. 

[chakkman]

17 minutes ago, STiFU said:

I am not implying that I only play games with superb AAA-graphics.  But I'd still like to know how these technologies work because it is simply very interesting!!  

Fair enough. I didn't want to imply that you guys are only in it for the graphics. Just that I think there's too much focus on them these days.

[peter_spy]

32 minutes ago, STiFU said:

My guess is, they automatically generate LODs at map compilation or something like that.

At some point the presenter actually said "no bakes, no LODs", although maybe he meant artist-authored LODs. It sure does look impressive, all the pro "Zbrush cowboys" and photogrammetry companies will be more than happy to use this engine.

[Arcturus]

Things like dynamic global illumination, advanced physics, destructible environments, that sound reverb they mention at 3:05 and just the scale of maps that you can make, all these things can enhance gameplay. Modern editors are also far more convenient to use. You can just drag and drop your assets. Now you won't even need to make low poly models (realistically you will for at least some models because high poly scans or sculpts take too much memory).

[woah]

I doubt we'll see very many games at this fidelity for a while but it's nonetheless quite exciting.  Especially for developers, assuming it's really that easy.  Also, no cut up to $1 million is really cool for a fully open source top of the line game engine.

However what I found comical was how we're being shown these incredible graphics but in terms of interactions we're still stuck at "Press X To Interact"

[JackFarmer]

3 hours ago, woah said:

However what I found comical was how we're being shown these incredible graphics but in terms of interactions we're still stuck at "Press X To Interact"

Do not challenge the casual player.

[STiFU]

 

5 hours ago, woah said:

However what I found comical was how we're being shown these incredible graphics but in terms of interactions we're still stuck at "Press X To Interact"

Taken from Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon...

[STiFU]

Here is a quick analysis of the unreal engine 5 demo. It's not as in-depth as the title suggests, but gives us an idea about these two new technologies.

 

[HMart]

Like I assumed voxels.  This just shows that Jonh Carmack was right all the time, this would be the future, unfortunately he was not able to make this a reality for idtech 6/7 like he said in 2008 hardware was not fast enough until now. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by HMart

[peter_spy]

Wondering how this will impact memory and disk space requirements. With "unlimited polygons" you could basically ditch normalmaps, but a 1 million poly .fbx model is actually heavier than a 4k normalmap (compressed).

[demagogue]

A little testing reported in the TTLG thread on this said that a 1 million poly fbx mesh is 30 mb, a compressed 4k normalmap would be 22 mb, but a 3 million poly .fbx mesh is already 84 mb. So if they keep it in the 1 million poly neighborhood and you lose the normalmap, it's not exploding too badly.

[STiFU]

10 hours ago, HMart said:

Like I assumed voxels.  This just shows that Jonh Carmack was right all the time, this would be the future, unfortunately he was not able to make this a reality for idtech 6/7 like he said in 2008 hardware was not fast enough until now. 

Did I miss something? They only talked about voxels when dealing with the topic of Global Illumination, didn't they? 

[demagogue]

It seems it's some kind of dynamic LOD. You can see distant geometry morphing (or appears to be morphing) even when the player is hardly moving. Voxels (or more typically voxel geometry converted into poly geometry for the render) are one place you see that happen. That morphing looked a lot like a promo video of Voxel Farm. But I don't know that that's what they're doing here.

[lowenz]

11 hours ago, HMart said:

Like I assumed voxels.  This just shows that Jonh Carmack was right all the time, this would be the future, unfortunately he was not able to make this a reality for idtech 6/7 like he said in 2008 hardware was not fast enough until now. 

Carmack is only "wrong" being such a visionary. He's too much ahead of his time. Sweeney is not

Carmack is a cleverness powerhouse.

Edited May 15, 2020 by lowenz

[HMart]

9 hours ago, STiFU said:

Did I miss something? They only talked about voxels when dealing with the topic of Global Illumination, didn't they? 

You are right, I spoke to soon, seeing the video again, I saw no mention of voxels in the nanite part. But i'm still inclined to believe this is based on them, I have no real evidence for that, just the fact that John talked about virtual geometry linked to voxels and that many modern game technologies use them in the background to achieve their effects, I'm just directed in that direction is all, but yes this could be something totally different. 

lowenz yes John Carmack is a genius and is a petty he left the engine/gaming world but I will not downplay Sweeney that guy is also a very clever fella.

Edited May 15, 2020 by HMart

[peter_spy]

Idtech is still an in-house engine for just one publisher, while Unreal Engine is a world-wide smash hit that everyone can use, so I wouldn't dismiss Sweeney so easily.

[lowenz]

3 hours ago, HMart said:

You are right, I spoke to soon, seeing the video again, I saw no mention of voxels in the nanite part. But i'm still inclined to believe this is based on them, I have no real evidence for that, just the fact that John talked about virtual geometry linked to voxels and that many modern game technologies use them in the background to achieve their effects, I'm just directed in that direction is all, but yes this could be something totally different. 

lowenz yes John Carmack is a genius and is a petty he left the engine/gaming world but I will not downplay Sweeney that guy is also a very clever fella.

Of course, I was only saying "Sweeney is more grounded"

[Anderson]

Discussable. Carcmack was too obsessed with the tech.

You can argue that if they didn't make Quake 3 a multiplayer game, we wouldn't have an increasing focus on multiplayer games today. Maybe no loot box gambling and battle royale games today. Who knows? Where have we sinned to sink into this mediocrity? Certainly there would have been no Counter Strike, because that was a Half Life mod, which ran on the Gold Source engine, that was written based on Quake 3's code. Beyond that there was never a gothic Quake game since the original one. They really knew how to butcher the series. And wat? No Trent Reznor/Nine Inch Nails in Doom 3? Goes to show where their priorities were.

Eye candy graphics is ok if only games actually have something else besides that.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Anderson

[STiFU]

4 hours ago, Anderson said:

Discussable. Carcmack was too obsessed with the tech.

You can argue that if they didn't make Quake 3 a multiplayer game, we wouldn't have an increasing focus on multiplayer games today. Maybe no loot box gambling and battle royale games today.

Quake 3 was brilliant, 'though!! It's still being played to this day. That reminds me, Quake Pro League Finals are on today. I totally forgot! Cya! 

P.S. Going from an arena shooter to loot box gambling is quite a stretch, don't you think? ^^ Also, it's not like Quake 3 invented multiplayer.